Ep. 034 - Shawn Brooks: Creating Success by Providing Value

Matt Stagliano: 00:01:44

Hey, friends. Welcome back to Generator. This is episode 34 and I'm calling it Creating Success by Providing Value.

And today I'm thrilled to have my friend Shawn Brooks joining me. Sean is a fellow 17Hats Ambassador, which is how we met. And immediately after talking to him, I knew he'd be perfect for Generator.

Sean is a guy who's got an incredible knack for streamlining success. After 25 years of being in business, believe me, he's seen and done it all.

From being a photographer, to building websites, to design, to speaking, coaching, consulting, he embodies what it really is to be a successful creative. But what Sean is great at, and I do mean great, is helping companies clarify their goals and then translate that into content that converts.

Whether it's websites or emails or video content, you name it, he's got a method and process to make it simple for you, how he's done it for years.

In this conversation, we dive into really what it means to stay productive, build a brand that lasts, and make your business not just work, but thrive. He shares powerful insights on everything from simplifying daily tasks to creating genuine connections with clients.

And you know, that's one of my favorite things to talk about is human connection, right?

So he also sheds light on the art of balancing value and passion and what it takes to build trust in an industry full of quick fixes and short lived trends. It all comes down to providing value for your clients.

So whether you're an entrepreneur or a creative or just someone that needs to work a little bit smarter rather than harder, this episode is packed with stuff that'll help you elevate how you work and how you connect. So grab a coffee, get comfortable, and let's get on with the show. Shawn, thank you so much for being here today.

I'm actually really excited to talk to you because based on our conversation last week or the week before, you had all this stuff that I wanted to talk about. So I thought you'd be perfect for Generator. Thanks for being here today, man. I really appreciate it, man.

Shawn Brooks: 00:04:26

I really appreciate you having me. That's most important. Thank you.

Matt Stagliano: 00:04:29

My pleasure. So just in the 20 minutes that I spent with you on our last conversation, we're talking about 17 hat stuff, right? We're both 17 hats ambassadors.

We're kind of into that. And that's why I reached out to you originally. As soon as I talked to you, I was like, I gotta get this guy on because he's got this story.

And the services that you provide are kind of like those things that Entrepreneurs like me look out and say, I wish there was someone that could help me with this. Right. With my marketing, with my website, with language, with copywriting, with design, with packaging, and you do all of it.

And it blew my mind at first how amazing your websites were, like just consistently good.

Shawn Brooks: 00:05:15

Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:05:15

You know a good website when you see it and you're like, oh yeah, there's no fluff here, there's no junk here. It's just good stuff. And then you've got your photography business the same way and you've got your, you know, your branding.

Like every business that you have is so well executed.

And I can't wait to dig in to how you do it because I think there's a lot of people out there like me that are like, I, I need a, I need, I need help, I need help doing my, you.

Shawn Brooks: 00:05:42

Got me over here blushing, man. You got.

Matt Stagliano: 00:05:46

No, but I'm serious. Right, so, so let's start at the beginning. So in, in going through your stuff, I know you've got a broad background and Navy and you.

Tennessee State, right? Yeah. Give us a little bit of your background. How did you get to where you are in Costa Rica now from where you were, I don't know, 15 years ago. Wow.

Shawn Brooks: 00:06:06

Where do you want to start from? Well, getting, getting to Costa Rica was regarding trauma.

You know, I dealt with, you know, a successful business person, but I dealt with a lot of personal issues in my life and I lost my oldest son, he was 34 last February. And as a result of that, I, I'm not gonna say I went downhill, but I went into this different state of mind.

Matt Stagliano: 00:06:30

Sure.

Shawn Brooks: 00:06:31

And as a result, things started revealing themselves to me. And then I was married for what, 16 years. And it wasn't the best, wasn't the best marriage. We were great, but it wasn't the best.

And I decided, I asked her, can I be released from this marriage? And based on that, because I realized that I needed to heal from some things that I dealt with trauma from, from growing up.

Childhood was really rough and she granted it to me. As a result, I was like, okay, I'm going to go somewhere different. There's a lot of things going on in the States.

I don't know what's happening, but let me try something different. And Costa Rica popped up.

Matt Stagliano: 00:07:06

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:07:07

So I started doing some research and then that was it. October 31st, bought a one way ticket. Everything's in storage and I guess the rest is history. This is, this is a wonderful place.

So, you know, the healing started and you know, it's been great. It's been great. Yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:07:22

That really surprised me that you were down there only because your presence is such. Right.

You're working from there, but your presence is such that I would think you were right next door in terms of the clients that you're working with and the services that you're providing. Right.

So yes, you work mainly with entrepreneurs or small business owners or I, you know, I know you've also worked with like Kellogg's and Marriott and like some really big brands. Is it a focus on the small business or do you focus on big brand development too?

Shawn Brooks: 00:07:55

At this point in my life, it's big brand development. And when I first started out, you know, like I said, I've been doing this for what, 25 years now.

But when I first started out, I just, I would work with anyone, you know, and then I made good money doing it. But as I got older and as we do when we get older and wise, we realize we have to niche that term they use down to a target market.

My target market as of today are coaches and consultants.

Once I understood the barrier of what coaches and consultants do, where they're going and what that market was opening up, I decided I needed to pivot the business because a lot of times we get into business and we don't want to let go, we don't want to grow or, and we want to stick with it and we're outdated. So I decided to pivot.

And coaching and consultant was the platform or the, or the clientele for me now, being that I was already established in the industry, I still have a select group of clients that, you know, they're well off and I keep, I still provide service to them, but yeah, mostly coaches, not mostly coaches and consultants. That's where I'm headed.

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:59

You've been in this for years, like you said, but it seems to be there's been a movement over the past couple of years. I don't know if it's an economical thing, if it's just with the introduction of AI that businesses are changing.

But it seems like there was this proliferation over the past year or two where anybody that couldn't do became a coach of something, right. And they could come up with something in AI and like, I'm going to coach you to make a million dollars selling rubber duckies, right.

Overnight it was like that. And just as soon as they appear, they disappear. So that's true for someone with longevity in the industry.

What do you think for coaches and consultants is really one of the Primary drivers to long term success.

Shawn Brooks: 00:09:45

I think long, long term success is consistency and people that are smart enough can see the people that are the fly by night coaches.

What's ruined, almost ruined the industry was everybody became a coach, you know, but I became a coach because I actually did the work, you know, I actually know how to do the work and that's why I would say I'm successful in that realm. We're running ads consistently to bring people into our businesses, even as a, an established coach that knows how to do the work.

But it's a little bit more difficult because over the last two or three years people have seen things and signed up for things and didn't get out of it what they were promised they were going to get. So it put a bad taste in people's mouths.

So now we're at a point where we really have to put our dollars in front of us, we have to put our consistency in front of us and do the things necessary as somebody that's established to keep ourselves relevant.

Matt Stagliano: 00:10:46

That was one of the stats that on your website, you know you've worked with 3,000 some odd clients over the years, right?

Shawn Brooks: 00:10:54

Yes.

Matt Stagliano: 00:10:54

And if that's not proof positive that you know what you're doing. Right.

And, and I think you mentioning putting a bad taste in your mouths, I think that's really the, the best way to put it because I'm a huge, huge advocate for getting outside help. Coaches, mentors, people that can do it better than you, hire someone smarter than you to do the thing exactly right.

So I have no problem investing in that. But I found myself getting very skeptical with the, what I was finding online.

What I really liked about your sites was that there was never a point where I felt like you weren't able to deliver. I don't know if it was the copy that you wrote, how you explain the story on your website. I just felt instantly comfortable.

Do you feel like that is something that a lot of websites, and especially in the coaching and consulting community, they don't clarify themselves or set themselves apart. Do you find that that's a common problem amongst coaches? You do it very well.

But I'm just curious as to what you see when, when people come in with a blank slate and go, sean, help me. Are you seeing the thing like that just jumps off the page like, oh yeah, oh yeah. No, I know exactly where to start.

Shawn Brooks: 00:12:11

Once, once I see their website, I can determine exactly what they're not getting and why they're not getting it.

The most important thing is that what A coach needs to talk about is to talk about the transformation that the person coming to their website is going to receive. And a lot of coaches and consultants neglect to do that. They talk about themselves. I got this degree, I got that degree. Nobody searches for.

How many degrees do you have? It's not a common search. They're searching for a remedy to a problem that can be fixed right now.

Gotta remember, we're in the microwave age and if you don't put the content out there, that's, that can help people transform right away, then you're not gonna be able to acquire clients. And I can see that right away. So I always tell coaches there's four, there's four pillars to creating a client attracting website.

And it's one of the worst things, like I say you can do is talk about yourself. Don't talk about yourself. You're not important because they'll find out who you are as they dig deep.

You know, you can have an about page, but on the front page, just give me a little, little bit of what you can do to help me. Give me a little diagnosis. But that's, that's what I diagnose and that's what I do. When people come to me, that's the difference.

And you probably have seen it on my websites.

Matt Stagliano: 00:13:25

It's. But that's the balance, right? And that's what draws someone in. A potential customer, a viewer, right? A student, a mentee.

It's what draws you in because you can personalize what you're reading to your situation. You say, oh yeah, this is the guy for me. I'm, I'm having that problem. I don't know how to copyright. I'm not getting the leads that I want.

I know I'm a good person and I've got a good service, but I'm not getting the leads. What's the problem, right? And so when you're able to come in and reposition, right? I look, I look at the world of personal branding.

As a photographer, right? A lot of people come to us for the personal branding, the headshots tell my story. I don't know how to tell my story.

Being able to explain to someone how it ain't about you, it's not about you at all. It's about letting the client see the success that you can bring them and moving forward with that. It changes the way that you read a website.

And I know immediately when I read someone's website whether they get that or they don't because I don't care about your Dogs and your long walks on the beach and, you know, the fact that I've been a photographer for 37 years and I first picked up a camera when I was like, I don't, I don't care. How much do you cost? What are you giving me? Right. The same things that we look at any website for. I really liked how you positioned that with folks.

I think we're seeing a huge push into the personal brand space, Right?

Shawn Brooks: 00:14:54

Yes.

Matt Stagliano: 00:14:55

People realizing that with an online economy, we can put ourselves out there in a different way.

Shawn Brooks: 00:15:02

Exactly.

Matt Stagliano: 00:15:03

I'm of a certain age where I'm still kind of stuck in the corporate, traditional ways that I learned, but am evolving to putting myself in front of the camera more, letting people understand the personality.

Do you find that folks that are getting into this world with you, your students, your mentees, do you find that there's one thing that they don't like? I'm not putting myself on camera. I'm not recording videos. They might take new pictures. But do you find that there's a resistance to any of this?

Shawn Brooks: 00:15:35

Yeah, it's a, it's a big resistance because most people are behind the scenes and they don't, they don't actually trust their process. And it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's crazy that they can be so good at something, but they're not trustworthy enough to go in front of the camera.

Matt Stagliano: 00:15:50

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:15:51

Because they feel that they have to be perfect, and you don't have to be perfect to do what you do. If you want to present yourself on your website, that's where the photography comes in. We're going to, I'm going to tell your story with photos.

Your photos will match what you're, what you're putting out. And so they go, what? I say, yes. So I walk them through that process.

So, you know, walk them through the four pillars, and then we're going to tell your story with the four photos. I always advise them.

I say, listen, you want to be like Jake from State Farm or the, or the brands that we recognize the person that's presenting the brand.

Matt Stagliano: 00:16:24

Sure.

Shawn Brooks: 00:16:24

Because that's the person that we think about when we're looking for, let's say insurance or the Geico little gecko, you know, I'm saying they have millions of dollars, but they keep, they don't need any more money, but they just keep their brand in front of you. And you have to do the same thing as a coach or any business.

You want to be in front of the people and you know, that way if they're looking for something, they will remember.

Matt Stagliano: 00:16:47

There's so much crossover between what you do and what we do as photographers. I know you can speak in both worlds because you're a photographer as well. The audience here tends to be a lot of photographers, a lot of creatives.

Right. Most of us are solopreneurs to one degree or another. Some that are just starting, some that have been in the grind for 15, 20 years.

Shawn Brooks: 00:17:10

Right, right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:17:11

And do you think that there is a trend that you're seeing in solopreneurship in entrepreneurship these days? Do you think people are looking forward enough as they build their brands that they're kind of future proofing? And is that something you help with?

Like, as you start to look down the line and build this brand for someone, is there anything that you're looking for in the next, you know, three, five years that you try to avoid for people?

Shawn Brooks: 00:17:41

What I would tell people is stay away from the trend. Stay away from the things that you feel that are not brand incorporated.

So I just had somebody today say, hey, you should get on TikTok and come up with a product. And there's a girl that made a million dollars on a five hour live. And I said, well, how long has she been doing this, though?

She didn't just develop the product overnight.

And a lot of people in whatever industry they in feels that the solopreneur industry, they can just come up with the product or I can just pick up a camera and I'm going to be a professional photographer, put some photos up. It doesn't work like that. There's work that's involved in everything that we do.

And if you don't put the time in or put the work in, in three to five years, you'll see the results, you know. So yes, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. And the biggest one is everybody's a clothing designer. I want to be a clothing designer.

I said, well, what do you have? Well, I have a T shirt with a name on it. Crickets. Crickets, you know, like for real, you know, is that your brand?

Anybody can produce a T shirt with a name on it, but they get so caught up in it. And then I say, well, have you let anyone see the brand, you know, the design? Oh, yeah, my friends and family.

Same as the photographer getting started. Only friends and family has seen his work. And what, what are they going to do? They're going to tell you you're the best at what you do.

But then when you get out there across the highway in the real world and you get smacked in the face and then you know, or someone tell you you're not worth what you quoted me. Then you find out the truth. Solopreneurs out there, listen, it's a process. It's a working process. You don't just jump out here and start out great.

It doesn't work like that. That's like one in a billion that. That happens to.

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:33

Oh, God, that's so funny. You mentioned the T shirts. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I've got a Vista print store. Oh, do you really? Oh, that's fantastic.

You've got mugs and mouse pads. What's a mouse pad? No one's used a mouse pad, you know, how many years.

But, you know, at the same time, I can very much sit here in judgment, like I always do, right? And point fingers at everybody. But we all start at the same spot and we all learn the same lessons, right?

And what I've always found is even the people that start with T shirts and stickers and mouse pads and mugs, all they're doing is defining and redefining and redefining what they're good at and what feels good for them, right?

Shawn Brooks: 00:20:09

Yes.

Matt Stagliano: 00:20:10

And eventually they wind up in a place where they realize that, oh, I finally got a product that I love and I believe in and that people want from me. Not just friends and family, but strangers. Or they go to a place where they're like, you know what? This ain't for me.

I'm going back to my 9 to 5, which is perfectly valid. And sometimes you mix the two, right? You have your 9 to 5 while you build up this other business. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Either of the other things I saw on your website as we talk about this, right? Being a solopreneur, having a business starting out, you make a ton of mistakes.

Mainly, I found less in the creative idea space, more in the productivity get shit done space. One of the terms that stuck out to me on your website is productivity assassin. And there is no way that I could let that go by.

I was like, you need to explain what productivity assassin means and then talk about, like, the habits and the techniques that, once people start to change, become the most effective. So start with productivity assassin, because I need to know what that means, man.

Shawn Brooks: 00:21:17

Productivity assassin. It's just I used it in a different context. I assassinate things with my productivity.

Matt Stagliano: 00:21:24

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:21:25

And what I mean by that, I don't try to do everything myself when there are means and ways for it to get done without me utilizing all of my time.

Whether it be using a software I say like 17 hats, CRM, whether it be an email autoresponder, whether it be any tool out there on the Internet that can help me or assist me with simplifying my business. That's what I do.

And I also help people understand that software and things out there that can help you are the things that we need to simplify our life. We cannot do everything.

And once we understand that, and I think the hardest part in that is we don't, we don't realize that we can duplicate ourselves.

Matt Stagliano: 00:22:07

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:22:08

But it takes time and it takes a little bit of work, like having staff, that's the hardest thing. But once you get it established, you become what I call a productivity assassin. Because now you can just use your voice to get things done.

Matt Stagliano: 00:22:22

I know for me, I struggled a long time with, I can't hire anyone, I can't outsource anything. I need to be in full control, I need to do it all. And then the stress piles up on my shoulders, then I don't have any time to do anything else.

My, my work life balance is non existent because I'm trying to do all the things myself. Right. Having something like 17 hats, right. We both, we both believe in the product, not plugging it here.

But as an example, it's helped me automate so much of my communications, which is fantastic. Which frees me up to do other things.

Now might be finances, that might be, you know, doing photo shoots, whatever it is, but it's definitely freed up my time. And I couldn't imagine going back to what I was doing before. Same thing.

If you hire an assistant, like, holy shit, I had no idea how much they actually do and how much time I was losing.

So what you're saying is as you start to add these tools in and it gives you a more efficient process, that that's where like real growth starts in the business. Right. Because you're not wasting your time in the menial stuff.

Shawn Brooks: 00:23:29

Exactly. So I look at the word and I laugh at it. Productivity assassin. But I'm assassinating the things that prevent you from growing. I love business.

Matt Stagliano: 00:23:38

Is there one thing that you see over and over that people are really wasting their time on? Is it communications? Is it website? Is it not going out networking to find the right leads?

Do you find that there's one place where people are really wasting their time when they're getting started? That just doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.

Shawn Brooks: 00:23:58

I can't say one thing because it's always a variation and it depends on where they're trying to go in their business. Because there are some people out there happy with their one person business. You know, they're making their, their money and they're happy with it.

But to scale and to grow, you have to accommodate other things. Email nurturing is important.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:20

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:24:20

You know, once you establish your copywriting, you're good. You don't have to, you don't have to change that up. But so, yeah, at one point would be nurturing, I would say nurturing clients.

A lot of people don't understand the importance of nurturing clients through email. People think email is dead, but it's not because people that want pertinent information and you're providing some type of value.

So we'll go back to, let's say funnels, right? What is a funnel? A funnel is a system to get people into what you're offering or what you can help them transform.

So you give them, let's say, a free download or a webinar or a free training that they can actually take something out of it and implement it. Right now, what are they going to say in their minds, thank you, whoever they got it from. And then what do they do? They're on your email list now.

On your email list. Please don't go out there and sell, sell, sell them.

No, keep providing value, nurture them and the information that you're giving them is information that you can create content with entrepreneurs. Solopreneurs don't understand the value in nurturing people through emails.

And how consistent if you get them through the end of that funnel, guess what? They become a client.

Matt Stagliano: 00:25:34

Yeah. All right, we've opened a can of worms, right? So my brain is going, I was just writing all sorts of stuff down. Now I'm just going to go free.

Free for all. With nurturing sequences. Right? Let's not even talk about sequences yet. We're not getting there. We're doing lead magnets. Right.

You want to provide a PDF or a video on a landing page, something that's going to bring people in, Right. Get them on your email list because that's the one thing that is independent of platforms. Instagram, Facebook and Snapchat.

Those will all go away tomorrow. But you still have your customers that signed up because they want to hear from you. Okay?

Shawn Brooks: 00:26:10

Exactly.

Matt Stagliano: 00:26:10

And I see a lot of different emails coming through my inbox. I find that I almost instantly trash can anything that has products in it.

Like, we're selling you this product Rather than here's the product and here's how we use it or here's how Joe and Sally used it and you know, having a little bit more social proof.

Do you find that straight text based as if I were sending you just a regular email work better than these, you know, highly stylized HTML, lots of images, really slick looking. Right. Because you get both types. But do you tend to find that like an individual's personality will come through more with just the plain text?

Hey, here's just good information from me to you versus here's good information and here's my workshop and here's my book. What do you find tends to work best? Shorter, longer, lots of images, no images. Like is there a formula that you like to generally adhere to?

Shawn Brooks: 00:27:13

So I say in my funnel, what I do is I have a 21 email sequence. The first seven are when they first download the ebook. And it's short sequential emails that are short to the point, text based.

Matt Stagliano: 00:27:28

Yep.

Shawn Brooks: 00:27:28

But they're spaced out enough where people can see them. They're not all jumbled together. People don't like jumble. So that's stage one. The first seven.

The next seven are broken up a little bit and I may put some products in there or some call to actions to schedule an appointment, things of that sort. I'm still helping them. But I'm saying you're past the baby stage, you've grown now, you're a little taller on these next seven.

And then I add a little bit more to it and then the third stages I go back to nurturing. It's email, blogs, stuff, things of that that I put in it. And I'm, I'm kind of selling them because they're an adult now.

Yeah, you know, you're, you're 21 emails, you're an adult now. So I can now push it, but I don't push it too hard. I still make sure I'm providing some value. So you also stated that there are two different types.

Depends on what type of business you have. If you're a product based business, then your emails are going to be product based and let's say depending on what type of product base, electronics.

I mean if you're selling all electronics you can't really dig into because you don't know what type of electronics people want.

Matt Stagliano: 00:28:34

Sure.

Shawn Brooks: 00:28:34

But if you're a body butter company, then you can go into the dynamics of the benefits of body butter, the ingredients that you use and things of that sort and you break it down, let's say one item at A time of how it can help someone as a photographer. Breaking down the schematics of a shoot. What does it take to get a good photograph?

It's not about just picking up a camera, you know, understanding the lighting, understanding if you're in a north or south facing window, what you can get from that. So you use that in moderation in your emails. Text based, and I see it attracts a lot of attention.

Matt Stagliano: 00:29:11

I could take any one of these topics that we're talking about and talk for hours about it. I'm just nerdy that way. And I love digging in and hearing how people do it. Right. And I understand that there's never going to be a one size fits all.

Right. I do that same thing with my students. Right. How I do things works for me. How you do things works for you.

Sometimes there are efficiency improvements that we can make, but you've got to have total control of your voice and how you're perceived. That's all up to you. It's not up to me as your coach or mentor. You've got to have a good handle on who you are and what you want. Right.

And then we can kind of craft things around that.

I think email is one of those big scary things for people because when they send out one email and they don't get a response or they're not looking at any analytics of what's happening, what's your open rate? Are people unsubscribing after the third email?

There are so many different variables involved in email communications to do it right, to really drive people through the funnel that I think it becomes very intimidating. So we write one or two emails and then kind of give up.

I love the fact that you take the stage of these 21 emails through toddlerhood, adolescence, adulthood, because if they're still hanging out by that 21st email, they want things from you. They like your voice, they want to hear. So how much are you looking at analytics and reports as you, you know, send these out to thousands of people?

How much emphasis do you place on tweaking your own process after you look at some of these analytics daily?

Shawn Brooks: 00:30:52

I look at analytics every single day.

I want to know the person that's on my email list that has got through 21 emails and they opened them up or they clicked on something, because now I can personalize an email to send out to that one person and invite them into a specialty call or a specialty session of that sort because I see that they're interested or I can see, let's say, if I Send an email out about a blog post I did, and I look at the metrics on it and there's not a lot of clicks on it. So I'll go and re edit that blog post just to see, make sure the content is good. Because if the content's not good, then why is it on your site?

Yeah, gotta get rid of it. But the metrics are important. The metrics are in any business, the most important aspect of your business.

I look at what people, what pages they're looking on, what you know, how long they're on the page that tells you a lot about your content.

And my thing is my, my downloads, I really put value into my PDF downloads because that's the only thing that's stopping them from getting on my list.

So what I mean by that is I want to make sure when they get that download that it's so valuable that if there's something else within my quadrants that they need, they'll come back and get the next one.

And I don't intertwine the emails because they didn't come to my website and download a funnel PDF and now I'm sending them emails about building their whole website. That's not, that's unfair to them, you know, so you want to keep it consistent with what they're downloaded. But back to the question.

Metrics are like, it's like looking at your bank account because you know what these people are doing. And don't fail to reach out to these people that have already showed interest.

And let's say some people are running ads and you're just piling up, piling up, but you're not following up with the people that are showing you interest. It's like you open up a retail store, right? 10 people walk in, you shut the door, and you don't say anything to them.

You look out the window to see who else is out there. They're in the store, they're ready to purchase, they're ready to do something, but you ignore them. Why do people do that? Metrics. Know your metrics.

Matt Stagliano: 00:33:03

I'm a huge SEO nerd.

And the same way that you're looking at email analytics on a daily basis, I'm looking at SEO analytics on a daily basis because I'm at the point where I want to know what are keywords that are people responding to, right? Where's the good content on my website? What are people really searching for?

And I find that it's less about my website and more learning about what my customers want. Right? Because if they're looking for personal branding, they may be looking for something like headshots, not personal branding, the term. Right?

And if they're looking for headshots, are they looking for corporate headshots? Are they looking for something more informal?

And then as I start to understand how Google searches work, I can then craft high converting content for my website based on those searches, right? And play the whole SEO angle and watch those analytics and see how people come through for that.

And it's been a, it's been a nice method for me and have watched my Google rankings skyrocket because it was less about me putting all my shit out there and more focusing on what do my clients actually want out of a photographer that does the type of work that I do, catering to not only the services, but then giving them the education on the why. Right? Because everybody's why is different.

But trying to write these things in a way that is more educational rather than just pontificating about how great I am and look at my amazing images. Right? And that's one thing that I really, I noticed about your coaching website in particular. You're.

You're running workshops, you're bringing people in, right? And you've got these short videos that just get me every time I start playing. I'm like, yeah, I want that.

Because you're like, are you someone that wants us? I'm like, yeah, I am. I'm one of the people that wants it.

So you've got this, like, nice little efficient method of a hook and then consultation calls and then workshops and downloads, right? You're constantly in this education space.

How do you feel about the free content versus, you know, using it as leverage to get someone into a workshop or sell a book or, you know, something like that.

Shawn Brooks: 00:35:29

You have to leverage your paid content and find something within that paid content that you can leverage for free. So.

And what that does is that puts people in a position where they really are getting value because you've decided, let's say in chapter, you got 10 chapters in a book, you give them away the first chapter. So now they get a chance to read the book to understand who you are, and now they can make a valid decision.

So I'm one for giving something of value, not just the fluff, you know, you know, the basic, the basic stuff. No, I want you to get some type of value out of anything you're downloading from my website. I put out out videos.

I put out things because videos are quicker and easier for someone to watch than to read. Because you got to remember Too. Most people are on their mobile phones, you know, so they can watch a quick video. They'll watch it.

Don't make it too long, but make it to the point, and I'll talk about myself telling you what I can help with. This is what you need, is where you're at. Boom. Move forward from there.

Matt Stagliano: 00:36:30

You do a great job in your videos of not filling the first 30 seconds with BS. You're not like, I'm Sean, and I like puppies. And I do. You just get it. You get right into it, right?

And I see so many videos that turn me off in the first three, five, ten seconds. Because I'm like, I clicked on your video that says, you're going to save me money.

I want to know in the first 10 seconds how I'm going to save money.

Shawn Brooks: 00:36:55

And that's what people need. They. And how I figured that out is when I was. I was running ads and I was posting my videos on the.

On the video platforms, so I would, okay, go to and watch the video, and I can actually see where people were dropping off, right? And as I see it, you know, because it gives you the scale all the way across. And I go, why are you dropping off at eight minutes?

Well, let's know five, six minutes, right? So I go back and watch the video. Hi, I'm Sean Brooks, and I. I've been doing it, doing this, doing this, okay? So I cut that off.

Then I moved the video up. Boom. They finished it all the way through. Because I provided value, so I let the metrics tell me what was working.

I didn't guesstimate it because I thought people wanted to know about me first, but they did not. They want what can help them. Now, that's Tiger. Let me give you another analogy. It may not.

May not be a good one, but, you know, someone's bleeding out, and you're the ambulance, but you're talking to them on the phone about how you can help them. You know, they're like, well, get to the scene and help me. But, you know, no, I've been doing this for 30 years, and I'm on my way. I'm driving.

But you know what? Listen, our tires are good. They don't want to hear about all that. They want you to get to the scene and help them.

Matt Stagliano: 00:38:11

You've mentioned a couple of times you're big into ads, and I'm not going to be one that gives away any of your secrets, right? I want people to be able to come to you and ask you how to do this.

But you're big into Facebook ads and creating and shaping ads that continually work, Right. I know a lot of folks treat ads like a TV dinner and they just kind of set it and forget it and hope that it brings in the clients that they need.

But you're constantly adjusting, you're constantly moving and are setting it up in a way that you can derive the most from your ad budget. A lot of people feel that they can only afford $5 a day.

There are some people that are believers, and I have to spend a hundred dollars a day to get any eyes on anything. In your estimation, advertising on. Let's just pick Facebook meta, right?

Shawn Brooks: 00:39:07

Okay.

Matt Stagliano: 00:39:07

Advertising there rather than going into Google and Instagram and all the different places you can advertise.

But if we look at the metaverse, meta universe, as you build these ads, do you find that there's a certain type of ad storytelling, product spotlight, education? Do you find that there is one that most people should at least start with? Not the I'm Sean Brooks and I like long walks on the beach.

But do you find that there's an ad formula that you've developed that works for most people for their one ad that they can run right away?

Shawn Brooks: 00:39:45

Education. So an education ad is an ad where you know what, what problem they have, and here's the transformation.

But what I'm going to do, I want you to watch this free video, but instead of saying a free video, you want to call it something better. I won't reveal that what it is, but it's a.

It's an ad where they have to put their name and email address in because you've told them in your intro video what it's about. And you are going to give them three things that can help them right now. No flop. Three things.

And I break down how the ad should be written, how it should be scripted, and what you should say and what you should end it with. And based on that, they go. They go to your next stage, which is scheduling. You don't want to send people to a page trying to buy something.

You want to schedule a call, want them to schedule a call with you. Let's say your package that you're selling is $10,000, right? They can afford $10,000.

You got them on the phone, but they can afford a $5,000 package, $4,000 package. If you've never gotten them on the phone, how could you sell the package?

So in a nutshell, educational ads that pushes to something that you're going to give away of value. I can't say that strong enough, it has to be something of value that they can use right now. So I would say put yourself in their shoes. Okay.

Every product or every coach, every solopreneur should have a package that has a four step process, three or four step packages. I'll give you an example of mine. I broke it down into four workshops.

Those four workshops can be combined into one 90 day class or one six month class however they want to do it, right? So those four things are broken down. So I'll give away number one, you can have that, I'll give you that.

But if you find found value in what I've given you, reach out to me and I can help you with two, three and four. And a bonus number five which will be, let's say the ads, how to run your ads yourself, not me running them for you.

I'm going to teach you how to do it with that. You see what I'm saying? I'm providing some type of value on an educational ad basis.

Matt Stagliano: 00:41:49

Those have been the types of emails and ads that I respond to most, right? Where I feel like, all right, you're actually giving me something that I find valuable. I'm going to stay on your list.

I'm not going to discount you, right? And I, I started this. I'm by no means a good guitarist, but I play by a campfire, right? And like I'm good enough to.

So my dog doesn't just completely run away. I'm decent enough.

I found that there were ads when I was starting to learn that would get me because they were giving me scales and ways to play the guitar that I was interested in. And I didn't have to buy A$19,$299,000 course just to get those basic exercises.

But because that built value for me, I'm now weirdly loyal to that person and whatever it is they're going to be selling and I'm going to give that more credence because they gave me value to begin with. And I think it's the same thing with everything that we do with coaching, with photography, with being a lawyer.

If you're giving value to someone, I think that makes that connection between them and you stronger. Even if they're not a full time client.

It gives you that, that, that subject matter expertise, that social standing where they feel like, all right, I can trust you a little bit more. You're not fly by night. You're not trying to scam me or get over on me right away. I know you're selling me Stuff, but I kind of value it.

Everybody kind of knows they're being sold to that. We're a country of it now. We're just, everybody's selling everybody else, right? I love the fact that you base your business on creating that value.

Now I'm going to take that a step further.

Do you find that as you start to personalize a brand, you hear the term value based business where people are injecting more of their beliefs and their own personal values into their business? Is that something you help your clients lean into? Or do you say we're going to leave out politics, religion and money? Right, the three big no nos.

We're going to leave all that out of our business and just focus on what it is that you're providing. Or do you lean into the social value aspect?

If they truly believe that that's a strength of their business, how do you, how do you navigate that world?

Shawn Brooks: 00:44:13

I say, I had a, I had a life coach that came to me or holistic life coach. And I said, well, you're a life coach. Do you want to help people with their life holistically?

And she looked at me, I said, okay, so we're going to talk about life coaching and then we're going to push how you help them, which is holistically. But when you say holistic life coach, you're putting limitations on who can receive your help. I don't know if that makes sense, but it does.

Matt Stagliano: 00:44:42

Yeah, absolutely.

Shawn Brooks: 00:44:43

The way we wrote the copy was you need help with this, this, this, this and this. Allow my holistic approach the ability to help you. Because some people may not understand what holistic means.

You know, some people may, may need her help, but they have no idea what that means. Or if you're an energy healer.

People may not believe in energy healing, but if you put it in the way of, hey, try a new mode of you've tried this, this, this and this. So you start with that factor.

So what I've done is I just kind of reprogram it, twist it up a little bit to put it at the end, what your modality is, you know, what your specialty is. But let's put the treatment first.

And I think in every business, if you put the treatment first, what you can help people with first, then lead into what your beliefs are, you'll get what you want because you're not alienating anyone right off the rip.

Matt Stagliano: 00:45:44

You and I had that conversation about Donald Miller and the storybrand framework, right? And showing people what failure looks like versus what success looks like.

And if you call out those pain points, which is the problem, and then how you solve the problem, that tends to be a more successful sales strategy than just being like, you know, I'm the best and I've got the solution. Well, you haven't proven that you've got the solution because you don't understand what my problems are.

I like the fact that you're putting yourself in your customer's shoes and thinking about how are they approaching you? What are the questions that they might have? Do they know what holistic means or not? Right, right.

You've got to be thinking about these things again with these perfect explainer terms. Right. Productivity assassin, lifestyle organizer. Everybody's lifestyle is disorganized.

You are the champ to come out and be like, I'm going to organize your lifestyle. Everyone's like, that's a no brainer. I'm hiring this guy. Lifestyle organizer.

Is that different from what people would consider like normal productivity coaching? How do you define that?

Shawn Brooks: 00:46:55

Just going to change the way you do things, whether it be implementing, let's say, automation simplification systems within your daily processes. So I'm a need freak. I like to clean, I like to fold, I like to do laundry. That's who I am.

But I've implemented that into the business, the business of myself and the business of teaching people. If you follow this process, we can just simplify things for you. And I think that's where it goes. Simplification.

You know, you don't know what you have to wear in your closet because you can't visually see it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:47:29

Yeah, right.

Shawn Brooks: 00:47:30

So you go out and you buy a red shirt and you come back home, you open up the drawer, there's a red shirt in the drawer. You had no idea because you couldn't see it.

So a lifestyle organizer will come in and take all your shirts and hang them so you can walk in your closet and you can visually see things. Because when you can visually see things, it's easy to understand what you have. It's easier to understand what you need to do.

Matt Stagliano: 00:47:53

I feel so attacked. I feel so attacked. You have a couple of books. You have everyday habits of productive people. Right. So we're talking about productivity. You have.

It's all about you. Right? So what can people expect to find in some of these books?

Shawn Brooks: 00:48:09

Really the essentials of being, let's say productivity essentials of being productive. It's just a, that book is just a daily book. I only want you to read a chapter day.

A chapter is two pages and it's going to Give you what you need today. Work on that today. Don't try to read the whole book at once. It's not made for that. And the other book is a branding book.

It just gives you the essentials of building an online brand, building your brand, and it all starts with you. The branding book will give you all the fundamentals, everything you need to build a strong brand.

When it comes to, you know, your logo, your website, the fundamental things that you need within that brand. That's what that book will cover. Like I say, the productivity book is a fun book.

It's a book you leave on a coffee table and either first thing in the morning you read it or before you go to bed you read it. But I prefer in the morning, you read it in the morning and you implement it throughout the day.

Matt Stagliano: 00:49:00

Do you have like a daily ritual in the morning? Like, do you, do you do something religiously every morning? Right.

I'm thinking, Navy guy, you've got to have some, some of that stuff still ingrained in you. Right. You talked about being clean, neat. Yeah. Do you have like a daily ritual? Do you meditate? Do you read in the morning? Do you write a to do list?

What's your, what's your process?

Shawn Brooks: 00:49:20

My to do list is in the Evening Times where I look at what I have to do for the next day.

So it kind of eases my morning when I get up, and then when I get up, stay away from the electronics, meditate, do some type of exercise, unless I'm injured to be going through that a lot, but an exercise of some sort, meditation. And then I turn on YouTube and I turn on the motivational channel and I just let a motivational talk just go.

It's usually like a two or three hour talk. I just let them talk and then I open up at that point, if I had any breakfast, I open up my laptop and look at my reels, you know, as they post, and.

atest. Yeah. Ends at probably: 11:12

Matt Stagliano: 00:50:02

You just mentioned, you know, you're seeing how your reels are doing. I assume you automate all that stuff too. Like, you strike me as someone that has basically automated everything. Right.

So you give yourself as much time to be you as possible. Do you automate your social media posts or is that something you still do individually?

Shawn Brooks: 00:50:20

I have it automated, like some of it up through the end of, I think December. Right now, it could be January, but I have the content done. But what I Found out is the stuff that I've been posting recently.

There's something about me going through my phone. 20 minutes.

I go through my phone and I find a video of me doing something, and then I bring it into the real, and I find a background music to match what I'm doing. What did I do this morning? And then I write the content for it. And it takes me like 20 minutes to do that.

But I find so much joy and satisfaction that I didn't want to automate it because I could. I could pre do it.

So, like, right now, if I open up my phone, I have, I think, 10 reels that are just clips of me, no more than 10 seconds based on what's in that clip. That's the content.

And I use AI well, let's say if I was drinking a cup of coffee, I would write a script that says the importance of having a email workflow and make it correlate with a cup of coffee, and it'll spit out, let's say, five topics, and then I have a script to write that out, and then it just takes it. Like I say, 20 minutes. And I enjoy that so much that I don't.

I don't think I would automate that right now because it doesn't take anything away from my day. And I feel so much joy after I post it. You know, it's like just finding the right music and. Yeah, that's. That's the funnel. I could pre do that.

But that joy in the morning while I'm sitting there with a cup of tea. Right. And I'm doing it as.

Matt Stagliano: 00:51:50

Yeah, I'm going to switch up a couple of questions and get a little weird. I was trying to think.

I'm like, all right, I can talk to you all day about productivity, and I could talk to you all day about automation and get people to your workshops and read your books and get in your email list and then, you know, do all the things. But I like finding the little nuggets that I can kind of quiz you on. So you like the Five Heartbeats? You mentioned that as one of your movies.

If your life had a soundtrack, what songs would be on it?

Shawn Brooks: 00:52:21

Cool. From the Heartbeats. Your. Your house is your. It's the main track on your. I can't remember the name of the track.

I can sing the song for you, but I'm not going to do that. I mean, we should put that out there.

Matt Stagliano: 00:52:33

You got a great voice, but, you know, Luther Bandrose, man, like. All right, all right, next question. You mentioned the TV show alone. Right.

If you had to spend a week alone in the wilderness with just one business tool, what would it be and why?

Shawn Brooks: 00:52:51

One business tool that I have to take, my Swiss army knife, it'd be 17 heads.

Matt Stagliano: 00:52:56

Yeah.

Shawn Brooks: 00:52:56

h. I've been using them since: 2014

I really understand all the principles, everything behind it and what it does, but it really, really simplifies everything that I do.

Matt Stagliano: 00:53:15

Now.

Shawn Brooks: 00:53:16

There are other softwares out there, but I'm so dedicated because I started with them. You know, I started with them and you know, I love it. But yeah, that would be my Swiss army knife. 17 hats.

Matt Stagliano: 00:53:24

You said you're a cyclist as well. There can be a lot of philosophy and Zen behind cycling.

Is there any part of cycling and the athleticism in that that influences your approach to your business, to your productivity in any way? Is there something that you've learned from cycling that has influenced how you approach your business?

Shawn Brooks: 00:53:49

They'd learn how to get away. Yeah. To learn how to make space for other things. To learn how that life is more important than just work, work, work. Cycling for me is.

It's about the physicality of it, but it's more about the mental writing in a space. And I'm out there alone on the highway. It's just me and my thoughts and I come up with so many creative things when I decide to just get away.

So that's my moment of creativity, of stillness of thought. It has helped me in the business learn that you have to take time to get away. Gotta find something that gets you away from the day to day grind.

Matt Stagliano: 00:54:33

That's something that not a lot of people do. Right. They feel like they have to work harder to make things happen.

And they don't give their brain the rest, the meditation, the zoning out, whatever you want to call it, dissociation, that it needs to just kind of rest and chill out a little bit. And yeah, you're not the first person to say that cycling really brings that to them.

That there's such a focus and such a, you know, it is such a long process. You're not generally going out on the road for a mile. You're doing 10, 50, 100 miles on the road and it brings you to a different state.

Shawn Brooks: 00:55:07

Yeah, I said minimum, 20, minimum, 20, 25 miles, minimum.

Matt Stagliano: 00:55:10

Yeah, man, I just get tired hearing you talk about that. Last question. Has there Been with any of your clients, an unusual challenge, right, that you faced, that turned into a lesson for you.

Shawn Brooks: 00:55:27

Don't chase money. In the beginning, you know, we feel like we got the bills and that. And I was, I was chasing money. I wasn't really chasing the passion.

And as a result, chasing a large contract. And I did a contract for this up and coming company and I got burned really, really bad, a lot of money.

So I learned that when you chase money, it eludes you when you chase the passion, when you chase and you do everything in the right way. So everything that's supposed to come to you will come, and it will come as it's supposed to come to you.

So that was a big lesson for me because I put all my eggs in that one basket and then as a result, I had to start over. So, yeah, never chase money.

Because once you'd establish yourself as a legitimate business, as a solopreneur, as someone that, that produces value, the money will start chasing you. And believe me, it won't stop chasing you.

Matt Stagliano: 00:56:29

I love that energy. And the most successful people that I know all speak that same truth. Don't chase it. Just serve, just educate.

Treat your clients right and the money will always show up and it'll start to flow to you in a river, you know, And I can tell that this has been something that has been true for you for a while now, because your energy, the conversations that we've had, the way that you approach the business is just so welcoming. And like I said, there's an immediate trust that you build just through the copy that you have.

So it's readily apparent that you kind of walk the walk and you talk the talk and you walk the walk. And I just, I really enjoy hearing you talk about this.

And now granted, I could talk to you for the next five or six hours about all of this, but I want people to know where they can find you for all this stuff. Is there one central location? What's the best place that they can go to learn all about you? Because I want to start sending people your way.

Shawn Brooks: 00:57:31

ShawnBrooks dot com. That's my focus right now.

And that's the coaching platform that will enlighten people, will help people get to that next level of success, whether they're a solopreneur, established business. I can help them with the fundamentals. So Sean Brooks.com that's the place to go.

Matt Stagliano: 00:57:46

Listen, you've been absolutely amazing. I can't wait for people to hear all this stuff.

And you know, it was just a real blessing for me to have you on here, and I can't wait to meet you at some point in person. Maybe I'll come down there with some linen, and I will sweat alongside with you in very, very humid.

Shawn Brooks: 00:58:05

Yes, yes, do that. We need to plan that. So. Looking forward to it. I'm going to hold you to it, Sean.

Matt Stagliano: 00:58:11

Thank you for your time, man, and I'll talk to you soon.

Shawn Brooks: 00:58:15

All right, thank you.