Ep. 043 - Mitzi Starkweather: WPPI 2025 Recap

Matt Stagliano: 00:00:39

Here we are back again for another episode of Generator. This isn't exactly another regular episode. This is the special episode.

It's the: 2025

My good friend Mitzi Starkweather joined me for this conversation because she and I got to spend a ton of time with each other at the conference, from seminars and the awards to playing mini golf. But. But we had completely different experiences. She was doing quite a bit of speaking. I was there strictly as an attendee.

We spend the next hour plus breaking down the good, the bad, the undecided parts of WPPI and what we'd like to see going forward. We also talk about some of the philosophies we think could help shape the future of the photography industry.

and I talking all things WPPI: 2025

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:01:59

You just been recording lots of podcasts.

Matt Stagliano: 00:02:02

And it's been, it's been nuts, man. So went out to WPPI with that intention to network a lot more and kind of build up Generator.

And so, you know, I made the mistake the past couple of years going out there and I might drop a hint that I'm doing a podcast, but I was never not pushy about it, but I was just never upfront and bold in saying, hey, do you want to be on? Do you want to be the guest? Right. I was, I don't want to bother anybody. And this year I was just like f that I'm just going to go and ask people.

And I came out of it with like 15 new guests, which is fantastic. So I've got a lot of people in queue.

I've been doing nothing but recording episodes, so I've got like five or six already done with about another five to ten ready to that are either scheduled or the. It's. I'm in process with the person of getting things scheduled. So it's great people that I've been after for years, so I'm super stoked about it.

Also some bigger things in the works, talking to some folks that we're going to build things a little bit differently from a podcast standpoint. It's great. It's scary because, oh my God, I've got to treat this like a business now.

It's not just kind of like a once in a while thing that feels really good, but the momentum is good. I'm getting my Process down.

Like, you know, the cool part was, and we talked about this at wppi, you're around your tribe and you feel real good and you get all this momentum and usually after a conference I come home and you kind of lose all the momentum and you just fall back into the routine. And I vowed not to let that happen this year and it hasn't. So as I came back, dove right back into making some of my ideas come to fruition.

Focusing on the podcast. I signed two big commercial clients that are long term, you know, multi month, multi year contracts which are fantastic.

It's been good coming back because I just feel like I have a whole lot of renewed energy to do some of the things that have been on my huge to do list forever, you know, so good things coming out of.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:04:12

It relate to that feeling. The momentum is great. I mean, yeah, there's definitely that little slump when you first come back.

Like the, like my partner and I are always like, it's the coming home from church camp feeling. You know, you come back and you're like, oh, this is. I'm back in the room world back up.

Like offing up the kind of the highs and the parties and seeing all my friends and making fun stuff. And then I, I don't know about you, I had like a veg out week after which was amazing. Just to like process everything and.

Matt Stagliano: 00:04:42

Yeah.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:04:42

Write about it and think about it and because my partner and I, we knew we'd need some time together so we dropped the kid with the grandparents for the week right after and went to Kansas City. And it was just really, really, really good. We watched between theaters and tapes and with friends, we watched like seven movies. So excellent.

Ate a lot of good food, took a lot of naps, slept in, didn't go to the gym. You know, it was great. I got a tattoo. Yeah, it was really good, but it was like good buffering time, like processing time.

Cuz I, I found that like the more intense my life gets, it's been, I've been learning the hard way that like, oh, if the more you do these intense things and these big experiences and have these intense connections and etc. Etc. It's like you need almost equal time time to just process it and think about it and then rest and all that.

So it's just like the other side of the coin. So.

Matt Stagliano: 00:05:32

So let's do our WPPI recap, shall we?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:05:36

Yeah, let's do it.

Matt Stagliano: 00:05:40

I got a whole list of like topics we can talk about. Real generic to a little Bit more specific, but first and foremost I want to hear your kind of over overall impression.

So give me like the, the synopsis because we're going to go into you all these little items, but I want to just get your feeling. You've been going to WPPI for a couple of years. What are your overall impressions of this year versus previous?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:06:04

Well, that's a great question. I, When I think about it, I think about like, new location and new vibe, like new opportunity.

I think I can only speak to my own experience, of course, and because I spent a lot of time, you know, in a specific, specific area and I wasn't like on the trade show floor much and I was just really more in my world with more people I knew and students of mine, et cetera.

I, I really did sense like the excitement and like the newness of it, which I thought was really exciting, especially for, you know, the things that I want to, the way I would like to show up at conferences now going forward. And I liked the size of it. I thought things were laid out well. I, I, the speakers I heard were great.

Like, I got to introduce a few speakers and then there was like the one that I stayed for and all that text you. I was like, I was like, come to Seth Mario's class right now. This is awesome.

You know, and like, some things I didn't anticipate, like that, that were really cool and like, the parties were fun and the, the venue was just so weird in Vegas and great. I don't know, I like strange novelty things. You know, this.

I'm like, wait, we can just play a kit mini golf in the Kiss Museum where you can also get married if you want. Like, what was really cool about it was like every wppi, it was about relationships, it was about the people.

And for me, like, just seeing friends and a lot more Canadian friends than I expected showed up, which I was happy about because I love the Canadians. And I just love, you know, people. There's people who come from all over the world.

And so I love just running up to people and seeing them and hugging them and then like having conversations and seeing.

You know, it's cool when you have that annual marker every year to check in with, like, you know, your industry and your peers and your friends, but also yourselves. And I think that's really powerful because you can be like, oh, who was I? What were my seers?

What were my concerns last time I was at this and then versus this time? And so I enjoy myself more than any WPPI or Any photography conference I've ever been to. So how about you? What were your thoughts?

Matt Stagliano: 00:08:03

Very similar, you know, so I think I can't read. Was this my third or fourth wppi? I think this was by far my favorite for different reasons than why I've liked other conferences.

So, for example, I agree with everything you say. It was a little bit weird, right?

I think the, the new layout, the new location, instead of it being at the Mirage and it being at the Rio, I think there were a lot of things that were unknown going into it, right?

Going year after year, you kind of have your, your layout, you know where you're going, you know, we're going to be situated on the strip and you have an idea of what the week is going to play out like. This was thrown for a loop. New hotel, new conference location, different crowd of people, promoted differently.

Different vendors and attractions and summits. I thought year over year this was infinitely better than last year for a bunch of reasons.

But like you, I went out there mainly to, to network and see people because I wasn't working for anybody. I wasn't filming, I wasn't trying to assist anybody with any of their seminars.

It was freeing for me and I had a much more wide open agenda, allowing me to do way more networking than I've been able to do at other conferences. And that made all the difference in the world for me because, you know, I'm so isolated up here in Maine. I need to be around my tribe.

And I thought that this year afforded that. Now there are some ways we can improve, but for a first time at a new location, no one knowing what to expect.

I think it went really, really, really well. And I think that's, you know, without blowing too much smoke.

I think that's a testament to the people that were running it and putting a lot of forethought into. All right, what are the things that we need to take care of? What have we learned from in the past? How do we make this a better experience?

Because in talking to Sally Sargood and George Varanakis, they really did focus on providing a better experience. And I think it showed. Overall, I think it showed. I didn't do any of the summits. I only did one free photo walk, so I can't really speak to those.

But the vibe for me was much more relaxed this year.

And that could be a combination of me just going out there a little bit differently and having a different vibe myself, or just the fact that there was no drama to speak of, there were no issues that I saw to speak of. Yeah, I thought it was overall just great. Let's talk specifics. The Rio, what'd you think of the hotel?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:10:44

I loved how much bigger my room was. Like when I walked in I almost thought, did someone upgrade me? But the space was great. The whole couch. You could actually use the mini fridge.

I mean, it's Vegas, right? Like to me it's like every Vegas hotel is ridiculous and crazy and wonderful and smelly and okay, it's a Vegas hotel. But I appreciated that about it.

And I thought that the layout of the conference at the Rio was really well done. I could find everywhere I was supposed to go. I mean especially for it being like the first year at a new place. I think it went well. How about you?

Matt Stagliano: 00:11:15

Yeah, I, I liked the Rio to a degree. The check in process was a little rough. Had to wait around a couple hours before they had my room ready. But you know, it is what it is.

But yeah, when I got to the room, I thought the same thing was I upgraded. I had a suite, right? It was huge and it was beautiful and it was exactly what I needed. It was perfect. It was a great room.

Now flying out there, I had heard some nightmares about people that were in the unrenovated tower, I guess, or some of the unrenovated rooms that like hadn't been touched for a long time and it was a little bit gross. But from my experience, things are super cool. I had no problem.

The hotel itself, as a Vegas hotel, I would say is kind of like a, A C plus, B minus, right? You're not staying at the Venetian or the Palazzo. You're staying at the Rio. End of the strip, more budget friendly.

All that means is that there weren't as many like food choices, right? There was only like one convenience store on property that I could find. So you know, the ventilation wasn't all that awesome.

But I really didn't spend much time in the hotel area. I was always in the conference area and it was a super short walk from the elevators to the conference area. Really well laid out.

I actually really liked being in the conference area and having like the split trade rooms so that you had a big room and a smaller room and then you had a Fuji room and then you had the future of photography room. I liked being able to find these different spots rather than you got a big hallway and you got a big trade show room.

I actually kind of liked the intimacy of some of these smaller areas. Maybe it's not for everybody, but I dug it. So I think that the hotel. Again, the people that run WPI don't control the hotel.

They're just trying to find the mix of value and budget and amenities to try to put on a great conference. And sure, we can stay at the Venetian, but the ticket price is going to be like a thousand bucks. Right?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:13:21

Yeah. We were hosting a conference, and it's, you know, you're trying to get people in it, like under 200 bucks for the conference.

You're not going to just then stick them in hotel rooms that cost at least 300 a night, because that's a lot of. They can't do that. And so I'm like, no, for what we paid, which was really reasonable. I thought it was good.

And like you, I didn't spend a lot of time in my hotel room, but when I did, I slept great. And I always travel with my white noise machine and, you know, my favorite things. And, yeah, took a hot shower every night, went to sleep.

It was great. So, yeah, I really don't have any complaints or concerns. And I think that, you know, as we.

Since next year is at the Rio as well, I think one thing that's going to be better about it in many ways is with it not being on spring break week.

Matt Stagliano: 00:14:04

Yeah.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:14:04

I know that there's a lot of photographer friends that I have, like, I could count, you know, on two hands immediately, like, ones who thought they were gonna come to WPPI and normally do, but they're like, oh, that's my kids, spring break. So they couldn't come.

And I know that they, you know, they were switching hotels at last minute and they could plan it only on that week, which it happens. But I'm glad that next year, with it being the first week of March, that those things will be a little different and the.

The hotel vibe and other people there might. I don't have any complaints about how it was, but that might be a little more chill, too. And I thought that the hotel, like, some.

And I'm picky about food, but had some good restaurants. And yes, you know, you're gonna. You're gonna pay. Of course, it's Vegas, but Monopoly money, you know. Right. It's. I was pleased with it.

And I always, like, could find a table really easily. I didn't have to make reservations or even have, like, a nice, good meal with friends or just things.

Because a lot of times you meet up, you see a friend, and you're like, oh, you want to grab dinner in 30 minutes? Or, you know, and then you can just hop over and do that.

So, uh, yeah, I think all of that works really well and just enriched the whole experience for me. So I think, yeah. And next year, all those of us who went this year, we're gonna not have that learning curve next year.

We're already gonna be familiar with it and they'll take everything. So I think it same with the people who plan it all, you know, So I think it'll go even better. They'll know exactly how to improve it for next time.

Matt Stagliano: 00:15:20

Since we talked about the kind of the rooms, the conference trade show, generics, the party now. Oh, well, that was a big thing, right? That was one of the best things that I saw them improve this year.

They had water stations where you could fill bottles, which was amazing. And they had, you know, concession stands where you could get a pack of M&Ms. And some water or, you know, a $35 Gatorade or whatever it was.

I thought those little bits of improvements were great. What I would have liked to have seen in kind of this generic feel is more place for community building.

There was this outside area where there were some tables. People could sit down, hang out in the sun. Great. Get outside, get out of the smoke.

I really would have liked to seen an indoor networking area, maybe a side stage. Right. Think about a festival, right? You get your main bands and these are all your speakers.

But there's that little side stage where all the folk players play. And I would have led to seeing a room where people could go in and network and hang out.

The Future of Photography Room, and I'll let you talk about that, was kind of similar, but I'm talking a room that can house, you know, 150, 200, 300 people. Because there were 6,000 people there, right?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:16:41

At least. Yeah.

Matt Stagliano: 00:16:42

How did you feel about the whole community aspect and the ability for people to interact in a bit more of a quiet setting rather than just seeing each other in the hallway.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:16:51

Right, yeah. Because, you know, there's the parties, of course, which we can talk about, and that's a fun. But, you know, the music's bumping in.

You're just like, screaming, and you've already lost your voice throughout the day. So that's not like. That's more just having fun, not so much having long conversations. I thought that. I agree with you.

A space like that could be really powerful. And I think that one of my favorite things about the Future of Photography Room.

So that's a room that I got to take part in with Terry Hofford, which was provided by Graphy Studio. And that room had, like, ebag chairs, and it was quiet. And there's espresso machine. Thank you, Gravity. Of course, we didn't even ask for that.

They sent it. And just some beautiful artwork of underrepresented bodies and, you know, just inspiring stuff and a few tots.

And that room was such an oasis, but not a lot of people knew about it or it was new, so. And some people, too. It was called the boudoir room. And some people, like, why don't shoot boudoir? So they automatically avoided it.

And then there was also, you know, yeah, it wasn't big enough for 200 people. But what I noticed was the conversations, first of all, that I got to have with photographers from around the world in that room.

So cool, so powerful, like, genuine connections.

Everyone, whether they stayed in that room for one minute or an hour or they came back throughout the week, no matter how much time they spent, what we heard time and time again from people was like, this is so nice. Oh, it's so nice to have a break from all the noise and the stuff and the, you know, stimulation of. Of everything else.

And I think that's really powerful because we kind of will. Can get numb to the overstimulation. Right.

And also a lot of us are, like, neurodivergent, and a lot of us are, you know, great on day one of the conference. Then by day three, we're just zombies.

So having that kind of respite, I think, helps us even be more engaged when we do go back into the trade show or when we do show up at our classes or whatever, because we've had that time to kind of just chill and then maybe, yeah, you type out that message to that person that you snapped a photo of their card because you met them, and, you know, the stuff that you forget. So I. I would like to see more of that.

I know that Graphy is willing to do something like that again in the future, and that's something we've talked about, and, like, how can it be improved? But everyone was like, yeah, it needs to be bigger, needs to be talked about more, and it just serves a lot of great purposes.

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:05

Yeah, I agree. I was in there quite a bit, and I always felt as soon as you walked through that door that it was almost like a sensory deprivation chamber. Right.

Just. It felt a lot quieter and nicer, you know, I wish people did know more about it. And that's really just a signage issue than anything else. Right.

It was down a little bit of a wing hallway, but a little Bit, you know, better signage.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:19:30

Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:30

Just something to think about for next year, I think would absolutely.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:19:33

Was changed at the last minute too. The room got changed because it's a new conference, a new year.

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:38

Yeah, that went really well and I liked seeing that model. I liked the fact that, you know, Graphy sponsored that room.

Fuji had their own room, which I don't know if you, if you ever went into it, but I spent.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:19:51

Didn't. But I sure did hear it on the last day.

Matt Stagliano: 00:19:54

Yeah, well. Yeah, well, there it is. Right, so. So for those of you that are. Listen, Fujifilm had their own room. They were announcing cameras.

They really do a lot in terms of sponsorship for the conference and driving their brand.

And what they did in there was they had Elvis's and they had Showgirls and all of these photo bays where you could go in and have your picture taken with them or treat it like a photo bay and take pictures of them. You could test out the Fuji cameras like the Instax Wide and the new cameras that they have, like the rf, the GFX rf.

They on the last day they had a, like a mock wedding and they had a wedding band playing, which you know, happened during your. Your talk and then life. But you had this, you had this wonderful 80s 80s music background for your.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:20:47

And I said, I think I acknowledge like during most of my As I am Raw portrait sessions that I do, I blast 80s music. So I really did feel quite at home.

And it was great training from Sue's Speak workshop a couple months ago because she was just saying, like, there's always going to be stuff that happens when you have to roll with it, you have to acknowledge it and like keep going.

And I was thinking that standing there, you know, 15 minutes into my talk as it's getting really like emotive and juicy and then like the band just starts playing brass monkey. Great. But it's fine.

Like would have been better if I had wasn't the last day of the conference and my voice was barely hanging on, but, you know, it still was fine. And then they ended right at three and I still had 30 more minutes to talk. We had some silence, but. But that's just the thing.

Like those things are going to happen. Sometimes that happens at these conferences.

You know, again, when I introduce some speakers, they'd be like, oh my gosh, these spotlights are so bright or this stage is so small. But like I told you, like Seth Miranda, he gets up there and he just goes.

He turned it into a strength and made a really powerful Presentation because he did this incredible live demo in these less than desirable conditions. But he said, name one commercial shoot that you show up at and everything is exactly the way it's supposed to be. That doesn't happen in our industry.

And so when I could see the photographers who just make it work, make it work, like, to me, that is the most creative thing you can do. And so I saw a lot of us doing that in many different ways. And that's just an attitude shift, right?

That's something that me, a few years ago, would have halted me and, you know, made me freeze up. And now I'm like, oh, okay, well, we'll just roll with it. Keep going.

Matt Stagliano: 00:22:16

That is such a wonderful approach to it. Because quite frankly, the audience is looking to you for the energy of what do we do now? Right?

We're all hearing the music or, you know, the stage is too small, the light's not working. It sinks in. Whatever it is. They're looking to you to kind of guide them through what do we do next?

And if you just keep rolling along with it, they'll stick with you. Every single time I thought Seth Miranda doing. I think it was like cinematic portraits on the go or something to that effect.

Creating cinematic portraits that was head and shoulders above any other seminar that I saw all week. And I went in there, truth be told, not wanting to like Seth Miranda. And he has this, you know, if you know Seth, which I don't know him well at all.

I've met him, but I've. I don't know him well at all. He's got a very gruff personality. He's New York, he's Brooklyn, he's Queens. He's like. He's just a New York guy.

So if you know the New York attitude. Seth Miranda, born and bred, right? So there's this. There's this attitude that he's got that unless you understand that, you don't get.

Yeah, he can be very gruff. He can lash out at you. But I realized that my opinion of him was totally wrong from the beginning. Totally wrong. And I absolutely fell in love.

One, with his teaching style, two, with his attitude and mindset and philosophy towards the act of creation and how you go about building some of these cinematic things when nothing is going right. How do you tell the story? How do you really dial in a look? And it's not just, hey, this is good lighting. Let's just go with that.

It's all the little elements. What are the parts of the story? So watching him build this unbelievable scene based on Nothing but audience feedback. What do you want, audience?

What do you want to see? And being able to build what we wanted to see was like we were.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:24:16

All doing it together.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:17

Do it all together. Yep.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:24:19

Yeah, we had us, you know, hold up our phone, flashlights in the background and you know, like all of that, it was just. But we all felt like we were all taking part in it and that was.

And you like realize that later and then you're just like, oh, that was, that's, that's really cool.

Matt Stagliano: 00:24:34

I think the thing that really set it apart for me was the inclusion of the audience. In his rapport with the audience. Many, many, many speakers will get up there and give their presentation.

And it is extraordinarily serviceable but is mind blowingly mediocre at the same time because people start checking their phone or talking to each other. There wasn't one set of eyeballs in that room that wasn't glued to what he was doing. So it was that sense again, small community. Right.

Involve everybody in the process. That is where you learn a lot of the nuance and the craft of photography, not just the marketing stuff and the social media stuff.

And hey, here's how to set up a three point lighting, whatever.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:25:21

And again, it's something that online education can't give you. Like he's a great online educator and he does that and you know, he does very well at it. But it's like when you, when you use that in person.

Matt Stagliano: 00:25:31

Yeah.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:25:32

Studying to your advantage in such a way it's like, it's, I, it just makes it so much more powerful.

Matt Stagliano: 00:25:38

The energy was really, really good. Yeah, that was my favorite. You know, I, like I said I didn't do any summits, I didn't do any photo walks, but I did see a bunch of seminars.

Elena Blair and Sandra Cohn and Pratik and Seth and Gary Hughes did a great one. I heard Jerry Gionis, I didn't get to see Jerry's presentation, but I heard it was phenomenal. As always, I liked the seminars.

I thought there were a lot more photo walks this year than last year. I felt like if you weren't doing a photo walk, you just kind of had this dead space in the middle of the day.

And I just one didn't have the budget this year to take photo walk after photo walk because they're about 150 bucks a piece. There were some great opportunities to get these small classes with unbelievable instructors. I just didn't take advantage of any of them.

I did a free Fuji walk, did you do anything with any photo walks for yourself? Did you do anything?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:26:32

Oh, I did not take any. I taught a photo walk.

Matt Stagliano: 00:26:35

Yeah, you left one, right?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:26:36

That was. Yeah, I led one on the. It was like the Thursday morning. And that was phenomenal. I. Oh, my goodness. I like those.

The people who attended my photo op, one of which said that it was one of the main. Two reasons she came to WPPI from Finland. Like, was for.

Matt Stagliano: 00:26:51

From Finland. Wow.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:26:52

Yes. I. It was amazing. We had another one there. I'm sorry, that was Austria. That was her who said that. But there was another one there from Finland.

And there were men and women, and I just. Just. Oh, they blew me away. Like, they latched onto it. And of course, you know, being me, I. I poured my heart and soul into it.

And some of them had already taken my course, I think my portraits course. Some hadn't. But, like, they latched onto it. And the way I also didn't have a model. Like, I purposely didn't.

I was like, we're going to be photographing each other. I love that there's plenty of models there, you know, But I just. I like to teach how to photograph people being people. And I. The caveat.

Models are also humans, but when they're modeling, they're not trying to be the human being themselves. They're. They're playing the part. Right. They're essentially acting. So it's like, okay, how do you photograph a person to be who they are?

And one of the most powerful things was at the end of the photo walk. And she. Her name is Julie. She shared about it today on Facebook. She was photographed by another student in the photo walk named Michelle.

And it was right toward the end of the photo walk. You know, people had kind of paired off. They were all photographing each other.

Matt Stagliano: 00:27:54

Yeah.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:27:54

And I had. We just had a couple minutes left and Julie had, you know, she had come into that photo walk on like a.

You know, she had like a riding scooter most of the. The conference, you know, for the long distances. And she'd come into class on that.

She seated and she was very quiet and, you know, hair tightly pulled back, like, just so kind, but very, very quiet. And toward the end of the photo walk, she was like, hey, Mitzi, I just gotta ask you, like, I just.

How do you get people to move and dance and how do you get. You know. And I just said, okay, here. And she was standing up at that point, so I knew she didn't need to be sitting. And I said, here.

I was like, you haven't let your hair down. And I. I turned, I saw she hurt her hair. I was like, your braid is like, Rapunzel. I was like, girl, could you let your hair down? She's like, yeah.

And she was, like, so excited to do it. I grabbed my phone, speaking of the 80s music, I play inside out. And I just. We just start dancing to that song.

And I just show her how I, like, start moving and, like, the props that I do and, like. And then the whole class just started dancing. And Julie's just. She is waving her hair all directions. She's, like, dancing, moving.

I mean, I have video of it. Michelle is shooting. I mean, she was on it. She was just shooting the whole time. And then she got a photo of me and Julie together.

I was like, sent it to me later, but it was so beautiful. And I got to kind of unpack that with Julie later because she came to the future of photography room, and we were chatting about it a little bit.

And because she had missed my mentorship portfolio review time. And so I told her, I was like, oh, come by the future photography room. Show me your portfolio. Because she's taking my course and she wants feedback.

And she was looking at her images. They're beautiful. And I gave her some feedback. And then we unpacked a little bit about the photo walk earlier that day. And I just.

I could just see it. Like, everyone learned it in that moment. She learned it again because we were in person. We were together.

And I said, julie, from now on, anytime you're nervous to photograph someone or someone's not giving you much emotion or they're not really opening up or whatever, I said, I want you to remember that the. The before and after of Julie we saw today lives in everyone. Like, that's in everybody.

And we all learned it that day, and we all saw it, and it was literally the last two minutes of the photo walk. We all just had our own. Finished out that song, had a dance party, took some photos and videos and Polaroids.

And then I was like, all right, y'all blew me away today. Go. And I mean, everyone just was so energized. And I. It was the last day of the conference, and I was, like, just exploding with joy and creation. So.

And one of the things I made sure to do at the beginning of the photo walk was because I don't. You know, sometimes when you're in person with other photographers and you're shooting, it can very easily get.

Descend into, like, people fighting for their two minutes with the model and just Showing off and having lens measuring contests, right? And, like, that kind of vibe. And I'm just so not about that. And so I kind of said that from the beginning. I was like, here's the deal, everybody.

That is not the vibe today. That's not the energy, because that's competition. And creation does not exist in competition.

So I said, I need you to understand that our vibe today is we're all neighborhood kids who are all meeting together at, like, the kid's house with the biggest trampoline or at the kid's house who has the mom who makes the best snacks. And we're all just like, oh, my God, I got this camera, or, oh, I got this new video game, or, oh, I got this thing. Let's make something. And it's.

That is the energy we are playing. And so bringing that element of play into it was very intentional on my part.

And I think that a lot of people gave that to me in their feedback, too, of like, oh, yeah. Because I think as photographers, it's easy to get out of the play.

And just the like, let's try this, you know, because that's what you do when you're kids. But then it's so easy to grow up and get so serious and be like, oh, do it this way, and can't break this rule.

And better do this, and better not try that in front of my peers, because, well, God knows what they'll think of me if I mess up. And it's like, I forgot to turn my manual focus off for the first half as Kara Marie's. As I am Shoot. And the first half of the photos are blurry.

Like, blurry. And I just, like, showed it. I didn't notice till we were looking at him. And she's like, oh, it's okay. I love Blairs. And she picked a bunch of those.

So you just have to, like, own it and move on, you know?

Matt Stagliano: 00:32:47

I do, yeah. The energy that sounds like you brought the energy that Seth had.

There are a couple others that I saw where that makes all the difference in the world.

Being able to involve the crowd, bringing a different energy, incorporating that childlike wonder and the element of play into something that we most times take too seriously. What are your settings? How good is it? How perfect is it?

There's so much of that that goes on because we are, whether we like it or not, consciously or subconsciously comparing ourselves to whoever else is there with a camera. It could be lens envy. It could be creativity envy. It could be idolatry.

But I found that when you're in those small groups, if you can break that tension and just get everybody on the same playing field, then none of that other stuff comes into play. And people can just create and be themselves because there is no competition.

I was on that one Fujifilm walk and, you know, I was going in because I had to kill some time. I wanted to play with one of their new cameras. I wanted to create some images. I don't like it. I've said this for years.

I don't like going and shooting in Photo Base only because I feel like I'm not going to get anything original. There's going to be 50 people in that line with that model and that lighting setup.

And the pose might be different, but for me, I want something completely different. So I went on this Fujifilm walk and we were lucky enough to have Aphrodite as our model, which is just a super bonus because she's perfect.

And we walk into this, this back room and there was one light set up and Ben Christman was leading the. The photo walk. And There were about 10 or 12 of us. Everybody that was going up were trying to get the trigger and hold on.

There was a little bit of a fight because one woman didn't. Said she didn't have enough time and everybody else got more time and yada, yada, yada. Right.

And they're trying to do a full editorial portfolio shoot in two minutes. Right. Rather than grasping the nature of what the photo walk was, which is try the Fujifilm cameras.

I waited until the very end and I went up, said hi to Aphrodite. I didn't even use the trigger, just slowed my shutter down. I wanted to get some blur. I was thinking very Kara Marie, very Mitzi, stark weather.

And I wanted to go in there and create something that was only going to be mine because I watched everybody else and they didn't do what I was doing. And if I had seen them all doing slow shutter stuff, I would have grabbed the strobe and done something of my own. I just wanted my own individuality.

So those were really the only pictures I took all week. And they were fantastic. From the standpoint of your photo walk versus that photo walk, we very much had the energy.

It's no fault of Ben's, but we very much had the energy of everybody's there as a singular individual. We just happened to be in a group together.

Sounds like yours is a group that every individual had an equal stake in that group and just this wonderful community. Right. And that's. That can Make a huge difference.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:36:02

You know, there's always like a couple people who are more eager to be like, oh sure, first, or you know, and then some like. But there was one person who was there and she, she was kind of worth the back of the.

I knew she wasn't like super like immediately jumping into photograph or be photographed. She was just kind of waiting because there was like a dozen people and like only setups that they, you know, had to share.

She, she was like, oh, let's see. I just want to make sure that like. And I was. And I said, I was like, oh, honey, like, don't worry, I'm. You're going to get photographed. Like, don't.

I'm. I'm aware, like, no one's getting out of this without experiencing it and shooting it, you know, just to reassure her.

But like, yeah, everyone got their turn.

And one of the things that was cool was like these two older gentlemen who were in the class and they were photographed and they were kind of quiet, you know, and they in like polo shirts and cargo pants and you know, they're just. They were photographing each other at my little expressions area, just like a white V flat, one light, you know, and I see them going through.

I had a stack of my prompt cards and they're going through them and like one of them was reading off cute and the other one just like fully commits, like doing this and they're just cracking up and laughing and I'm like, this, like, this is the energy that this can have. Because like, we all know what it's like. Wait, it feels like to be awkward in front of the camera.

And you know, we all know what it feels like to, you know, be on our side of the camera, but also the other one. And we have to understand both sides. That's how you get good at photographing people is like, you have to be willing to sit in front of the camera.

And so many photographers aren't. And I'm like that. That is the most powerful thing you can do. Even if it's just your own camera with a timer or a remote.

I, I still use timer because I have bought so many remotes. They're all gone. They disappear. They don't work when I need them to. And I'm like, oh, what is this battery that's supposed to go in how.

Anyway, so I just, I'm a self timer, girly.

But you know, there's so many ways we just have to get comfortable looking at ourselves and just showing up and trying it out and seeing how it feels. And then when other people are in front of our camera, we genuinely know how they feel and we treat them accordingly.

And we put our own stuff to the side so we can just be there for them and support them and direct them. And sometimes we're sitting there scared shitless or like, oh God, I don't know what to do.

But we just keep it together and we just try things out until we find the right thing. And we don't have to show them those first 50 photos if we don't want to.

We can show them once we got it where we wanted to go, you know, and so it, it's just like it. What I think is so important about the in personness of it.

Even in, you know, Seth Miranda's class, which wasn't a photo walk, it was a big lecture style thing where he could barely see the audience because of stage lights. You know, he still incorporated everyone.

And so I think that is such a huge difference because it shows us like, no, we should all be on the same team. Like, we should be helping each other.

Like, if we're all gathering together at a photo conference, then yeah, one person should jump in and be like, oh, can I hold that reflector for you while you're shooting? Or oh, can I? Because that is the type of spirit, like, that's how we collaborate. And so often we have to do that with other people on our jobs. Right.

And we have to do it with our clients too. Like they're collaborators with us, you know, much of the time.

So, yeah, all of those, all that to say with my photo walk, I was just so focused on, like, I want to teach a skill today. Like, yeah, okay. I guess these photos, you can put them in your portfolio or not, it's, it's fine, it doesn't really matter.

But like, I just want to show you something and answer your questions live and then set a little fire in your soul. So that when you go back to your studio, you have a whole new way of looking at it and you have a whole new set of tools in your mental arsenal.

Matt Stagliano: 00:39:29

You are teaching connection. And most of us don't figure out how to connect with someone unless we have a client in front of us in the studio.

As an autistic introvert, I have a real hard time in crowds introducing myself. I don't want to bother anybody. I stay out of the way. I retreat to the back of the room, right? I don't want to necessarily be front and center.

It's just, it's an uncomfortable place. For me. So this year, I went out with the intention of saying, listen, connect okay with my clients.

I connect well with my clients in the studio, But I want to bring that same feel to my everyday life. So I was applying a lot, quite frankly, a lot of the prompt techniques that you've taught and that I've kind of developed over the years.

While I'm standing in line talking to people, right. And not ask them, where you from? What do you do? I'm like, what book made you mad recently? Or, you know, and just throwing them for a loop.

They're like, I wanted to give people the chance to be a little bit off kilter and realize that not everything has to be so cookie cutter. You don't have to go to a conference and do the cookie cutter thing. You can approach it any way that you want and find your tribe.

But the best learning that I've ever had has been when I'm a little bit uncomfortable, but I push through it anyway. And I think when you're in these photo walks and you feel a little bit uncomfortable, you don't want to be seen.

Like you don't know what you're doing.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:40:58

Right.

Matt Stagliano: 00:40:58

We're all supposed to be professionals. So you don't ask for help. You don't raise your hand for a question. You're there just like everybody else. Make it what you want to make out of it.

But don't forget about the element of play and wonder and just shooting for the love of shooting, because that's why we're doing this thing. So seeing the energy that you Incest and several others brought into their talks made all the difference for me.

I wish more educators would see at least that connection. It might not be part of their presentation, but you can always incorporate crowd work into it. I really, really liked seeing that.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:41:37

Me too. And I think, again, that that is the. That's the piece of the piece.

That's the irreplaceable piece that still coming together and doing this can give us.

Because, yeah, a lot has changed over the years with the Internet and but one of the co is like, now it's like, yeah, you can buy a course for a couple hundred bucks from a creator like me or whoever, and then you can be like, oh, now that person's teaching a photo op. Well, now I'm going to go learn from him.

Now I could just ask them questions, live for way less than it costs to book an hour of mentoring with them or, you know, even. And that's also not in person.

So it's like, yeah, I think the more we play into that element of like, what can we only do when we're in the same room? And the more we like, oh, that just. I mean that my brain just starts firing with ideas and makes me feel excited.

Matt Stagliano: 00:42:22

You know, one of the other things I saw this year, which I don't know how I feel about it and I mean that sincerely, I don't have an opinion one way or another, but I saw that there were strange. I know, right? I'm ambivalent because I haven't heard enough opinions other than my own to form a complete thought on it.

And I don't want to be that guy that doesn't have the facts is just like, well, my opinion is this. So there were a lot of kind of overlapping off site shoots that were happening.

People going to the desert and Red Rocks and you know, Kayla had a VIP party and there were boudoir shoots over here. There were a lot of off site, non WPPI sponsored splinter events happening. Right.

People know that there's going to be 6,000 people in the same general area. They can get their own kind of paid event. Right. Or group event that we're all going out to the desert, whatever. Some are paid, some are free.

Do you feel like that takes away from the conference when people are more focused on going out there and doing these one off shoots, or do you feel like it's just an additional thing that people have access to? I don't want people to think that all of those are associated with wppi.

And I can't imagine WPPI would necessarily endorse every one of those shoots either. What are your thoughts on kind of these non official secondary shoots that happen throughout the week?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:43:55

Yeah. So, you know, I like you. I can't. I don't have a big opinion on this. I think it's definitely worth, you know, talking about.

And it's something that I saw, you know, things in my social media feeds for leading up and I saw people, I was like, I was aware of many of those things coming from myself. Like if I were to ever do something like that, to me it's in my brain. I'm like, oh, I would be. It's be a bookend.

Like it would be either right before or right after. So people come a little early, you know, stay a little late.

Because I like all the conferency things and I like the parties and I like the, I like going to the awards and I like, you know, God, the awards. That was just spectacularly inspiring and Jerry.

Matt Stagliano: 00:44:34

And Melissa, it was awesome this year.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:44:36

So Melissa on that stage. I'm sorry. Like, I. They.

There's has not been a single day that has passed since then that I haven't just thought about it and been like, she's spectacular. Like, yeah, she's so. I mean, well, we all know Jerry's great. Okay, cool. But he, I mean, he's the first one to say, like, she's incredible.

And like, just seeing the way they pour their hearts into that, what they've built and what they've kind of resurrected and, you know, all the other people who played apart, I mean, that is. That to me speaks to like, oh, there never needs to be a rut with these things. Like, look what they just, just did in the last couple years.

It's like they're the future. You know, the future of photography is whatever we're going to make it to be. And that can change drastically in one year.

So, yeah, with these other events, like, cool. I mean, if that's something that you want to do, I. I honestly think that it just feels like it should be bookended. That's. That's my.

If I were to do it, if I were to host something, it would be a bookend. It would not be during the main conference. That's all.

Matt Stagliano: 00:45:32

I think that was really where I was leaning. I know that many of the events that I saw people going to, I'm like, oh, man, I wish I was there. That looks really cool.

But I've got this other thing I'm recording with someone, meeting with someone. I'm there to do conference y stuff.

And when I would go to the portrait masters, there were always additional things, but like you said, they were bookended. Most people wanted to be at the conference for the conference, hang out with the people. Again, I don't have an opinion either way.

I don't give a shit. Honestly, I really don't. For me, I know I would get a lot more out of it, I think, if they were at the ends.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:46:10

But then again, I'd actually go to one. I, Yeah, I would make a point, like, if it was something I was interested in and, you know, cost more, whatever.

But I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll fly in a day early and do that or maybe a day later, whatever.

Matt Stagliano: 00:46:21

With these kind of offshoots as a harbinger canary in the coal mine, do you feel like big conferences are losing steam or are big conferences still viable, but they just need a bit of updating to keep up and progress past the traditional model? Of a big conference. What do you think?

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:46:44

Yeah, the latter.

Matt Stagliano: 00:46:45

Absolutely the latter.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:46:45

t few years, especially since: 2020

It's the. With the explosion of the online world and zoom calls and video calls and online courses and all of that.

I think just in the same way I tell my clients, your digital files are a supplement, not a substitution, I think the same is true for, like, online interaction.

Like, I think it's a really powerful supplement to a lot of the great, you know, educational and commercial forces that are out in the photography world. But yeah, some things need to change and adapt. And I think some of the ways it needed to change and adapt.

WPPI already did from last year versus this year, mainly because they had a brand new location. And I think they just, it probably helped them just see it from a totally new perspective and be like, how can we make this better?

I know some people said that they had wished the app was laid out a little differently. Just the way it was laid out didn't quite make sense for what a lot of people, like, needed to use it for.

But that's something that's also a relatively new technology to have for a conference. So just like improving that. And then can we also just stop, like, asking people to hashtag like, we're guys, don't do questions.

Matt Stagliano: 00:48:02

I'm gonna let you process that emotion for a second. I saw it was weighing heavy on you. Take all the time you need about hashtags.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:48:08

Social media is moving out. It's part of just the heartbeat of life now.

And so you don't have to put crazy filters and songs and on everything, you know, And I'm talking to like all the brand. I'm not just talking about wppi. Like, I think social media is fine, whatever.

It's just all the different brands across in the different photographers. It's like, just show where you are. And this is something I've had to learn. It's like, don't overcomplicate it. Show where you're at.

Talk about what it is. Like, just put it out there, be direct. And yeah, it's bring people in.

Like, give people a reason to come because the people are in the heartbeat of the whole thing. So, like, it's like, let's bank on that. Let's pour everything into that. Like, I'm sorry, I lost track of the original question.

Matt Stagliano: 00:48:46

Where I'm getting at is, you know, are the conference the big Conferences dead or can we revive them in some way? And I think they could be revived for sure. There is this middle ground that needs to be reached where you have the live in person component.

You have the content either before, after or during. And then there's the new media stuff, recordings, podcasting, live interviews, side stages, different types of speakers, chill out rooms.

There's a lot that has not yet adapted. Good WI fi, please. I would love to have that in any conference, not just wppi, any conference.

Because I think there's so many people that want to go live that do want to do a lot of these things for their audiences or their clients and there's really not an opportunity, thankfully.

I didn't see a bunch of people running around with selfie sticks, but there's an insane amount of people creating content there, facilitate that in some way, shape or form. And there's a million, a million ideas that I've talked to George about.

There are a lot of things that I'd love to see technology wise and new media wise, that brands can take advantage of, that conference organizers can take advantage of and that help the speakers as well as the attendees.

And I felt like this year, again, Rio issue, not WPPI issue, that there were some issues with the technology infrastructure that just didn't allow for the best quality talks. I saw projectors failing, I saw audio equipment failing, I saw, you know, the lights were way too bright on the speakers on stage.

All of those things are easy to fix, but you don't know their problems until you experience them. Right, right.

So but I think from a technology standpoint, I love the in person component, but with all of these talks and seminars and walks and stuff going on, you can't see it all.

So how do you capture it so as an attendee, you feel like you're getting a more comprehensive view of the conference and you don't have to pick your favorite child. You can go and see one speaker and then also see their, the other speakers that night.

You can see their talk, their seminar that's recorded that night. I think there's a lot that they can do. I don't have all the answers, but to tag on, yeah, the app needs a lot of work. The app was difficult at best.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:51:20

But just from what, you know, some things I've heard some people saying, I think that could be more helpful because it's like, yeah, everyone's going to put it on their phone and so they can use it. And then one thing I'm going to bring up that popped into My brain, as we're talking about this was just an example.

So last night I photographed a gala that I photographed for the last several years in the city. And it benefits a place called the Lafayette House that helps women struggle with substance abuse, victims of sexual assault, et cetera.

It's such a worthy cause. They, I mean, this organization's been around since the 70s. They've done this event for at least a couple decades now.

And we changed up the photo booth this year because I sat down and talked to them because in the past I come, I set up my camera, they come up with a nice pretty backdrop.

I would take the photos on my camp, you know, and then, okay, people, we'd collect their emails in some fashion and then they get their gallery, you know, since the. Which evolved from the past days where it's like you get a free 5 by 7 or $20 for whatever and you mail it out. Okay.

So I've done several of these type of gala things. And for this year I was like, okay, I'm like, let's, let's just go back to the roots. Let's go back to the purpose behind like, why we do this.

I'm like, so if we now have phones that can take excellent full length photos and can actually go a lot wider than my nice camera setup can, and if we have a nice ring light, they're blasting light, it'll. It'll probably even everything out. What?

You know, I was thinking about these different things and then I thought, oh, instead of just that one classic photo booth, I was like, this year how about we do two photo booths? So we're gonna have one called the DIY phone photo booth. And they were going to come up with a backdrop. Very.

Because when most people come up with backdrops now who aren't photographers, they're doing it for an iPhone, for that 28 millimeter focal length. Right? The, that's what it's for. It's the text or whatever.

If there's a detail or a text, it's going to be above people's heads, you know, it's going to be, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm like, let's have that photo booth and I'll have one person there.

I'll bring a ring light and I'll have one person there who's just kind of like, oh yeah, let me grab your phone for you. And you know, and she's like a content queen. She's my girl, Morgan.

And she, she just, like I said, when we get there, I was Like, Morgan, when they get up there, I want you to take some video of them. I want you to take some still shots.

I want you to, you know, get those shots even when they're all laughing because one of them kind of fell over during the big photo. Like, take a bunch of like, like be a little, give them a little content moment.

Matt Stagliano: 00:53:36

Yeah.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:53:37

That they are going to then share of this event instantly. Not tomorrow. When I finally send them the photos and they've moved on and they don't care about it anymore.

Like, you know, I was just, it was just such a different way of thinking about it because it was like, let's solve the problems we actually need to solve. Let's. Let's give people something helpful and valuable to help their experience.

So then what I booth next to hers, which is what I ran with myself, sister Natalie, she helped out to make sure people scan the QR code to just enter their email in. Which by the way, all I do is I just make a shoe proof gallery that's email access only. There's no photos in it.

Then you just have that link and you can just make a QR code. You could put it in on your phone anywhere. Anyone can access it from any device.

And I also learned you don't have them type it in on an iPad because people at these events drink and a lot of them also don't have their reading glasses. And so when they're trying to type in, we get a lot of errors.

So now if they can have a link that they just pull up on their own phone, what they're going to hit the button because their phone knows their email. Instead of going in two clicks, boop, boom. You know, it's just all these different things that I've figured out and to make this better.

So anyway, my booth was called the bestie booth and it was close up. I shot with a 50 millimeter, like one beautiful little 2.7 foot Profoto Octabox.

And I had like a spring colored backdrop because it was all like garden disco themed or something. So this beautiful ochre backdrop from Gravity backdrops that I love and which I never thought I would ever take to an event, but it worked perfectly.

And I said, okay, I put two taped X's on the floor. I'm like, you have to stand on these exes and people will come up with five girlfriends. I'm like, nope, two people, three max.

This is like a photo booth.

So we had two distinct things that served distinct purposes and they both were wonderful and people utilized both and they helped the line not wrap all the way around the dessert table with people standing there through the whole cocktail hour. Like, so I say all that to say, like, we need to be rethinking because the technology is changing so much. It's changed so much.

Even the last five years and just phone photos and all of that, like, that's all shifted too. And so we have so many opportunities to flip this upside down and be like, how can we do this better?

Like, how can we use all these new resources to then also, you know, which I'm always like shouting at other businesses, like, especially the non profits I work with or like even just to wppi, it's like, give people opportunities to make cool content because then they will post it and they will tag you and all their friends will see it and be like, wow, that's a super cool event. And yeah, a nice, well set up photo booth with white lights. Like, that's one way to do that. It used to be the only way. It's not anymore.

And I think there's like you said, there's so much that could be done.

Like, one thing I was even thinking was, what if there was someone interviewing, you know, a little blurb that went out every night on the app, a little video link or whatever that everyone got who got on the app that's like, hey, here's our quick one minute interview with all of tomorrow's headlining speakers. Like, so you could see their face.

Because a lot of times I don't recognize a name when I see it, but I recognize their face because we're photographers and we all use Instagram because it's visual and we know people's headshots way better than we know their names, you know, So I think there's so many ways we could do that. And you'd be like scrolling like, oh, no, I do have time during this tomorrow I think I'll go hear this guy talk or whatever.

Matt Stagliano: 00:56:41

It being a production focus would be wonderful, right? There were some, some WPPI in Vegas branded booths where you could take your selfies and get in there with your friends and make your content.

That's fine. I love the direction that you're heading with some of this.

And one of my big not ideas, I mean, it's clearly not original, but being able to use the app for that sort of thing, asynchronous catch up. See the speakers that you want to see in a different way on the app. Hey, I'm talking tomorrow about this. Or hey, last minute change.

It's not going to be in this room. It's going to be in this room. I think there's a communication channel that's not being used with the audience.

Granted, it takes time and effort and energy and people to be doing all that.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:57:28

It's more staff, for sure.

Matt Stagliano: 00:57:30

More staff and, you know, complexities.

When I was working for Outside Television and working up at the ski resort and hosting the TV show there, we would do every morning, we would do our snow report, right? We'd go out and we'd get footage of the mountain and give the conditions of what trails were going to be open and what lifts were going to be open.

It was great because people could get that before they went out and froze and realized the lift that they wanted wasn't running. So something like that for a conference, hey, here's what's really going on. In case you missed it this morning, we're doing this thing over here.

Here's something that you might not have seen during the day, and we wanted to call attention to it, right. There's so many opportunities, not in there for just conference content, but from a business standpoint, branded marketing.

Let's talk about, you know, the graphy room. Let's talk about the Fujifilm room and give people a sense of what's happening in those places.

So you'd be like, I had no idea that was even at the conference. I want to go check that out.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:58:33

Right, exactly. So many people who found the Future Photography room on the last day were like, oh, I wish I'd known about this sooner.

Just because there's just a lot.

Matt Stagliano: 00:58:41

I definitely think that's probably the biggest takeaway that I had was how do we make this better in the future? For all of us that go to these conferences, what are the things that we're constantly saying or missing?

A lot of it comes down to there is always too much. You can't see it all. Well, how about I want to see it all? How do we do that? I want to be the guy that sees it all. How do I do that?

And that could be a YouTube channel, Instagram channel. Right. It could be anything. But that needs some rethinking, some retooling, just to make the experience overall a lot better.

Mitzi Starkweather: 00:59:17

And. And also to.

Just to help people who maybe aren't, you know, because we all have, like, a couple speakers, we notice their name on the roster, and we're like, oh, I'm gonna make sure to go to that, definitely, because we already know them. But it's like a way to Help us discover new ones based on other criteria.

Maybe just their teaching style or their, you know, what they focus on or like, you know, maybe their biggest challenge they've ever overcome in their business. Or, you know, something like that where it's like, oh, well, then I think I would like to hear that.

It doesn't, it isn't just on, like, how catchy is their title of their class.

Matt Stagliano: 00:59:48

That was the great thing about that WPPI has got talent, right in that comedy seller. It was the audition for being a speaker next year at wppi. I had a lot of thoughts about that entire setup.

But after sitting there in the room and watching the speakers go through their presentations and their pitches to speak next year, I got it. When I first heard about it, I was like, I don't think that speakers should be chosen based on a popularity contest. How many people in the room clap.

That was my idea going into it of what I was going to see, right? And someone that goes like, hey, I'm, I'm competing in on stage to be a speaker next year. They bring all their friends, everybody goes nuts.

It's a crowd reaction. And even though their presentation sucked, they get chosen, right? Because crowd rules. It wasn't like that at all.

And I was super happy to see that everybody that was on stage gave these incredible presentations. Some were crying, some were very heartfelt, some were funny, some were extraordinarily polished.

These were all like, you know, five to seven minute TED talks about whatever topic they were going to be speaking about next year. Watching one person after another go up there, I was like, we should be doing this in a small room for the entire conference.

Having people be able to go up there and talk about their thing for 10 minutes. You may suck as a presenter, you may not, you may not have anybody in front of you, you may have a full room.

But these side stages, these secondary things to see. Adobe had one, Canon had one, Sony had one. Right? All stages where you see the same instructors. Who is, who's the next wave?

Jessica Malone wound up winning the WPPI's Got Talent, so she'll be a speaker next year.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:01:36

And I saw her presentation at the Speak workshop, so I am not surprised.

Matt Stagliano: 01:01:40

I was talking to her yesterday. She's so amazing. Everybody that was on that stage, in my opinion, deserved to have a spot. Let's bring some fresh blood in.

Let's start looking at things a little bit differently. But I think it was one of those hidden gems of the entire show to wander in there and see people at the beginning of their speaking career.

That's who's going to be the next big thing.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:02:03

The ones that I saw and the ones that I'm familiar with at least, which is most of them knowing also that they also run profitable photography businesses.

Yeah, I mean, I've been to many conferences over the last like 15 years and I, I get it when you're at a certain level, like you're, you're, you're all education. Okay. Like that's winner Jared Yonis. I mean he still shoots and stuff like that, but it's like that makes sense.

You're, you're doing a lot of other things because you're so advanced, but it's like for a lot of just the run of the mill speakers, I'm like, what I want to learn from people who are really doing it. Like Jessica Malone in like a small town, who's making good money, giving good service, making quality imagery, like showing up, being.

She's a mom and a partner and a daughter and she likes to, you know, I, it was her Instagram story the day after the conference. She's like, yesterday was Vegas, today's potatoes. And it's just a picture of her like picking potatoes outside.

Like, you know, just like, like, oh, you're like a real person who runs a business like me and also has a life.

And yeah, I think that that's really important because you're then you really are listening to people who do the shit they're telling you to do and you're following people who are facing the same challenges as you in the same type of markets as you. That's the most valuable thing.

Matt Stagliano: 01:03:13

And it's just, it's nice to be able to see her at this stage now, knowing that two years, three years from now, big name, right? Big name doing big things. So, yeah, I thought the WPPI's Got Talent was a, was a really good thing to see.

Was there anything there that you didn't see that you would have liked to.

I know we've talked about some of the, some of the things that we can improve, but was there anything there that you didn't see or you thought that people didn't see and we need to have there or they need to be more aware of the future photography.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:03:47

Room needs to be bigger. Yeah, I, you know, and I, and I got, you know, I got the, my photo walk. I knew about that several months in advance and I was excited to do that.

I was like, okay, cool.

And then as you know, time went on just with, you know, Personal stresses in life and, you know, the state of the world, the last few months especially, and, you know, all that, it's just like, there's just been more stress in the air for everyone.

Matt Stagliano: 01:04:12

Sure.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:04:13

Put it lightly. And so leading up to the conference, I was like, okay, yeah, this will be cool.

Maybe I'll just kind of go in toward the end for my, you know, photo walk.

But when Terry brought up Terri Hoffer, brought up the future of photography room idea to me, it was when I saw her in Phoenix in January, I instantly. My soul just lit up. And I could. You know, she did that because, like, last year, she was really. She was pretty dejected. She was pretty.

Like, she's been doing this, like, body image education work for years, and, like, things were getting better and then they just kind of got worse. And then she's just like, walking the trade show and see no one, no underrepresented bodies whatsoever. And. And all of that. And, you know, it just.

It's not so much of a, oh, let's tokenize these certain people. It's more like, okay, what does that say about, like, the heart of this industry, right?

And, like, what we're here to learn and how we're here to grow, etc. So, yeah, I think when I heard about her idea for this and that Graphy was going to partner with her, I was like, girl, I'm on board.

Like, I'm there to help. Like, I'm going to be there the whole conference. I'm going to get there a day early.

So I have, like, a nice buffer day, which honestly should call it buff day, because she and Otto has photographed me in the buff in the desert. Just like, because I. Because I went downstairs that morning and I see them at breakfast. I was like, hey, guys.

They're like, hey, what are you doing today? And see? I was like, I know. They're like, oh, we're going to rent a car and, like, go to the Valley of Fire today. I was like, cool.

I've never been outside of, like, the Strip in Vegas before. Like, great. And I was like, you can photograph me naked. I don't really have anything cool to wear. They're, like, perfect.

And, like, ended up being, like, one of the most empowering and liberating experiences of my life. But it was. It was play. It was such a great way to, like, yeah, it was a conference and then.

And it was just such a great thing into the heartbeat of all of this.

And, like, it just carried me through the week, like, the conversations I had with photographers in that room and the things we got to share and the things I got to speak on in that room. And then when Terry did the interview with me, like, and it's just, it was just such a. It just felt so collaborative again.

It just felt like we were all there together and like people shared their stories with me and like people asked me really great questions. And it was just such a. Like, how can we all grow together? How can we all make all of our work in our studios more inclusive?

Because if for, and Terry says this too, if for no other reason than like, you could reach way more people and make a lot more money. I don't know, art size 220 year olds who look like models, are they usually the one paying you for your photos that you take of them?

They're usually not the ones paying for it.

And they're for most of us, you know, whether you live in Maine or like Missouri, like me or Ohio, like Jessica, most people don't look like professional models. And that's fine, right?

And yet we can still come into these, this idea with portrait photography of like just fixing them to look as close to that as possible or as thin enough or young enough or whatever. And it's like, no. We have the opportunity to photograph so many people.

And it wasn't until I opened my own mind and my own heart to so many different types of people and the people, the types of shoots that made be uncomfortable at first, where, you know, it. It's what put me on this path.

Like when I started doing my As I Am raw portraits two years ago and now just even in the last month, I got to photograph these three amazing individuals with down syndrome who are in the Special Olympics of Kansas. And like, that was one of the best shoots and best days of my life. Like, truly, it restored my faith in humanity.

It gave me a burst of creative ideas. One of them, she was actually at the, the gala last night. It was like, oh, no kidding. Fundraising event. Terry. Yes, the woman from that shoot.

And she was one. They had a fashion show of local boutiques at the end and they had put her in the fashion show to model.

She went up and down that catwalk two extra times. She was serving, people were cheering. Like her sponsor, her friend who was with her was like trying to kind of grab her hand and be like, okay.

And she's like cracking up. And we're like, oh, Terry. Like, it's like. And I'm like, that's what I want our.

The future to look like where it's like, there is room for everyone on catwalks and in photos and on big images. Because that's when it changes in billboards, that's when it changes in magazines, it changes on social media feeds. And then guess what?

People stop hating themselves so much. It's amazing. And I know, yes, this is their, like, like, men have body dysphoria, men have, you know, eating disorders. Like, all that is true.

But I'm like, to the degree that that's true for women especially, it's like, how much more can you create and show up in the world when you're not preoccupied with this idea that, like, you don't look right? And we as photographers have the opportunity to, like, invite people into our little space. It could just be a little corner of a hotel room.

Like, it could be a big fancy studio. It could be whatever. It could be in that person's living room and we could just be like, hey, let me just see. Show you how I see you.

And then they can look and be like, what if I'm just good enough as I am right now? Like, we become unstoppable when we believe that.

And so that's why I love to teach it to photographers, because I'm like, this work starts with us first.

Good luck empowering other people if you're still just, like, hating yourself every day and, like, not even trying or opening your heart to change it or heal, right? And I'm by no means a perfectly healed, confident person.

There's a reason this is my swan song, obviously, but I open my heart to that journey and that's, that's all you have to do, is you just have to be open to it. And like, like. And I've just seen it time and time again with every person I photograph.

And every time I get stuck, every time I get, like, about, you know, just the photography education industry or just, just, just the photography industry in general, whatever. I have some shoot, some person walks in my studio, and they just, like, teach me all the lessons. You can probably relate all over again, right?

You just see the power and the influence we can have on someone's lives. I don't know if, if all we focus on is the latest gear or doing it right or the latest trend, and they're just focused on the money.

It's like, okay, we're doing a disservice to everyone, but mostly to ourselves. So I think we can have all of that. And I think when we put value out into the world, it comes back.

Matt Stagliano: 01:10:00

I think you nailed it in there. And I, I would hesitate to add really anything else to it because I violently agree with everything you just said.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:10:08

Violently.

Matt Stagliano: 01:10:09

Violently. The other thing that I would love to see is more speakers or focus.

Doesn't even have to be the speakers, but just a general focus in the industry on the why we're doing photography rather than the how we're doing photography. Why. Amen are you doing the things that you're doing? Why are you shooting that way? Why are you making the decisions that you're making?

If you can explain it to me, then fine.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:10:36

Sound like Dorian. Like, since he's like 3 years old, he's like, just why? Just why? Like, he says that all the time. And it's.

And it was one of the most powerful things when I got back from the conference to explain to this four year old, like, what I did there. And I'm like, oh, yeah, my friend Terry, photographing in the desert, no clothes on. Why? Explain why? I said I felt strong.

He's like, strong and healthy, like a superhero. I was like, yeah, like when you just have to boil it down. So it's like. And I think of everything through that lens now, right?

So if I'm like, oh, no, I go to this photography conference because I need to photograph a bunch of women who look one way to impress other people enough with my portfolio so that they'll give me money to photograph them too. Which I don't think a lot of us would sit down and say that. But that's essentially why people go. And it's like, yeah, you are missing out. Like, it's.

I got to do some portfolio reviews with people and just people who are willing to come up and ask questions. I love it. And as an educator, I learned so much from my students who ask good questions. Like, I. It fuels me.

And it's like, oh, yeah, that I should write something about that I should make a video about that or whatever. And it's so beautiful to see people who are teachable and who are just willing to be, like, ask a question or.

Because one guy I mentored and God, I was just like, like, you need to charge so much more money for these photos. Like, like, stop. Like, just what are you doing? You know, and just even have someone to say that to you.

And like you said, it's the focus needs to come to the why and not the how. Because ultimately that is my goal as an educator, is to teach people how to better create and think and be in tune with themselves.

If someone comes to me and they just want a to do list of this settings and this light and this. It's like, okay, yeah, that's okay. When you're first starting out. But, babe, you need to learn how to make your own favorite sandwich. And I do.

I use a lot of food metaphors. When you first make a sandwich, you really do think that peanut butter and jelly is all there is, and that's all you can make.

But then as you get older and you're like, oh, I can put avocado, I can put roast turkey breast, I can put mayo or, oh, I hate mayo, actually, or I love mustard or whatever, and you can get these opinions and you can craft like your own. And I think you. You gotta try all these things out for a while to see what you really gravitate toward.

But it's like just then learning to trust yourself and be like, oh, I gotta follow what lights me up. Does this light me up or does not? And get back in tune with that little childhood sense of, oh, what if we try this? Ooh, what if we try that?

Oh, what if we add this and get into that. That mindset of play again? That's what I want to direct people towards. And because.

Because we're gonna grow and change as human beings and creatives all the time.

And the thing is that as long as you're in tune from a, you know, former full time, like, glamour photographer for many years, breadwinner up my family, who changed and grew so drastically because of, like, cancer and stuff and becoming a mom and all these different things, I had to learn how to listen to myself and listen to my gut because what had lit me up in the past wasn't working anymore. And I was like, oh, no, I can't show up in a fake way. That doesn't work for me. I can't phone it in.

So I'm gonna have to learn how to listen to myself and what I really love and trust that that's enough. And Matt, as you know, obviously, and I've seen it in your own life, I've seen it. Jessica's. I've seen, you know, all these people we've talked about.

When you tap into that and you learn how to trust yourself, you will get opportunities and you will get relationships, and you will get things you never even thought possible. And it's like getting to that point where you can almost like, trust, fall into your own arms. And that's what I want to teach people how to do.

And that's what I think the best is. Did photography instructors teach people how to do?

Matt Stagliano: 01:14:09

I like that. Trust Fall into your own arms in that same photo walk. I took these pictures of Aphrodite, and I, you know, guy came up to me.

He was part of the group, and he's looking at them, and now I'm looking through them. They're JPEG black and white. They are like left or right. Third. They're blurry. And I'm showing them to him.

He's just like, well, that one should have been centered. And I looked at him and I said, why? Why? He's like, well, you know, because the. The composition. I'm just like, I. I took the picture.

Did you take the picture? I took the picture. I said, this looks exactly the way that I wanted this picture to look, so what's wrong with it?

And he was kind of getting the vibe that I was just going to put a foot in his ass if he kept up with it. But the thing was, we're so programmed to think that things have to be a certain way that we forget about the why we are doing the photography.

There can be techniques and standards, of course, but if everybody made pancakes the same way, there'd be no ihop. There is a reason why people are better at some things than others, because their intention is different. They focus on it differently.

So I just want to see more people leaning into the intention and the why rather than, I've got to take all the photos because I'll never see these people again. You're never going to see these people yet anyway. Go home, take pictures of the people that you have as clients and learn your why.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:15:33

I totally agree with you. And it's. Yeah, let's just. Just get.

Because if there's anywhere as a photographer where you shouldn't have to perform, where you can just play, it should be in this setting. Yeah, don't do that on the job. Don't just be like, you have, like, a commercial job with, like, strict deadlines and guidelines, and.

Yeah, that's not really the time to just. No, I'm going to try to make them blurry. Like, no, obviously. But it's like, I just proud to be at the point where I'm like, oh, no.

When I do a shoot of someone, like, I. I'm gonna give them a blurry and a sharp version of each photo so that in their instant reveal, they can pick which one they like better.

Matt Stagliano: 01:16:07

Totally.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:16:07

They usually pick blurry, by the way, But I'm like, no. My skill is that I know how to do both intentionally, and sometimes I mess it up, and sometimes there's happy accidents which those are great too.

At the end of the day, it's like people come to us for photos because they like resonate with the heart behind like who we are as people in some way. So put that infuse what you do with yourself and it's. I don't know. And just learn how to trust yourself because again, ego is a confidence issue.

Right? And it's living in fear, not love and tissue. It's like it's all antithetical to creation.

So we're just in a place where we can just create and be like, what do you want to make today? What if we just it all up, see what happens? It's like sometimes to do that, to get your brain out of tunnel vision.

Matt Stagliano: 01:16:48

The best way to go about it. I was fortunate to learn that early on with Parker, Parker Pfister, who just taught me to live in that childlike wonder.

phrase with me. This is what,: 2018

But there's always the moment where I'm stopping and saying, why am I doing this? Sometimes I catch myself. I'm like, I'm trying to make something look like something Johnny shot.

Or I'm trying to do something that looks like what Mitzi shot. And I'm like, no, what is it that I want to see? And yeah, I was just gonna say that was a. Again, one more thing that I saw in Seth's seminar.

Everything was intention, everything was why. And there aren't any bad decisions, just some that are better than others. That's it.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:17:38

Yeah. Some that achieve the result. You're going for better than others. Yeah. No, there is no right or wrong or good or bad.

And it's especially when you're just creating stuff. And I was thinking. So I had a conversation with Emma Ball. She's like my accountant and dear friend and everything.

And she came to the conference with me toward the end when I spoke and everything. And that was actually the angle she kind of took. I loved it for like the cards she passed out to photographers for like CPA services.

She was like, basically something like. Because it was. It had one of her as I am Rob portraits on it.

And she put something like, like, basically like, you don't need to be ashamed of your books. Like, just own it and show us. We're going to help you.

Matt Stagliano: 01:18:15

That's awesome.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:18:15

Isn't that great? And that's.

And, and because that's the way that I take, you know, all of this and so we were, we were talking about, you know, so she and her business partner speak at accounting conferences. Okay. Cpa. Can you imagine? Can you no mean as cpa?

Matt Stagliano: 01:18:29

No.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:18:29

Yeah, when they party, they part. They party. But anyway, she was saying how in that industry, so much of it has.

Has traditionally been focused around Shane and around like, oh, if you get this tax return wrong, you're gonna get screamed at by like your superior. And like, you know all this how?

Like, you know, they worked like crazy 80 hour weeks, like half the year and then the rest of the time it's just 40 hour weeks. That's the light season or whatever. And.

And as she's saying this, I was just thinking about the photography industry and I was like, I guess this is kind of all industries, isn't it? You can exist in shame or you can exist in just acceptance of what is.

And being like, you know, she talks about mental health to these accountants and CPAs. Like she. We have a little bit more of that in the photo industry too. Or like, can we talk about the mental healthies?

Can we talk about like, you know, all the hustle and grind and the 80 hour work weeks and getting all these jobs and all that. It's like, what if you do that for a while and then you get really burnt out and kind of become an alcoholic and then you're married.

Like I did, right? Literally. It's like, can we just maybe acknowledge or like talk about like, oh, how do you.

And it's not work life, balance, like, okay, I feel like that doesn't even mean anything anymore. We need to talk about that.

And that comes from that shame and that self loathing and moving that into just acceptance and love because it helps everything.

Matt Stagliano: 01:19:45

I was speaking to Elena Blair the other day and her episode is coming up soon. Cool.

And I brought up the question of balance and she actually used the word harmony, which I thought was way better, and how her life has fallen into harmony. I've tried to use the word balance and there's never a balance. I've never had balance in my life.

I've had times that are less stressful and times that are more stressful, but there's never really been balance because I'm just not built that way. Harmony, though. I can be doing nine things at once and feel perfectly harmonized, not out of balance one way or another.

So I've been trying to use that word harmony a little bit more in my own life rather than balance, because I don't. For me, I'm just never gonna have A balanced life. It's just not how I'm made as.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:20:28

I love my hyperfocus and then I love my veg out time. That's how I succeed best. I just, you know, like rewriting that 9 to 5.

Like we try to put ourselves in this, like, 9 to 5, whatever box a lot of the time. Or it's like that where it's no boundaries. Work whenever, sleep, sometimes live on coffee. Ha la la. Haven't eaten today. Whoops.

And it's like, okay, that's not sustainable.

Matt Stagliano: 01:20:50

That's not a badge of honor either.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:20:51

We can find. Exactly. We can find something that works and it takes a lot of us some time.

So I think having like you said, like, people who are speakers and mentors and like infusing that into it too, that only just helps.

Matt Stagliano: 01:21:03

I'm entering my 25th year of working from home completely. There hasn't been one time in that quarter century that I've ever felt like, oh, I got this all under control. Never happens.

So thinking about next year's wppi. I'm sure he'll be there. I know I'm going to be there. If it was anything like this year, I'll absolutely be there.

Any last closing thoughts about this year's WPPI that maybe we haven't talked about? We've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that we're missing?

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:21:33

Now that I've worked so much more closely with the people who put this thing on, I need to say that they care about it.

Matt Stagliano: 01:21:40

Yeah, they do.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:21:41

They don't just say they do. They care. Like George, Arlene. I mean, all of them. Kellen. Oh, my God. Just.

Matt Stagliano: 01:21:48

That was. They were my unsung heroes.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:21:52

Hello. Just all those.

All the people who make all the magic happen and make sure you have the universal pro photo triggers that's charged for your photo walk. And you know, all that stuff like that team gets shit done and they care.

And now that I know that, that's part of the reason why I'm also like, okay, here's my feedback on, like, how I think it could be even better from someone who was. Was in it the whole time. And that is what makes it a conference that I recommend to people. That's what it makes it.

One I'm going to continue being a part of. The other side note is I'm actually going to bring my family with me next year. Because the hotel room's big enough.

Matt Stagliano: 01:22:25

Yeah, for sure.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:22:26

I wish I would have brought them. They would. They just partied. We'd have plenty of room. And that's another piece too. Like, so many people in this industry do feel like family to me.

And so it's like I love to have like my partner, my son there because it's like, yeah, I want to, oh, look how big your son's gotten.

And you know, all this and people ask about them and I'm like, like, you know, this is a really special community of people and I just look forward to seeing where it goes from here because I think next year is going to be great.

Matt Stagliano: 01:22:50

If you didn't mention it, I was going to about kind of the unsung heroes of the production staff and the people behind it. And again, this isn't anything. We're not sponsored by wppi. I just tell the truth.

And looking at how this show was put on this year, the improvements that were made, and just the non stop energy of these folks right from the top, all the way down, keeping things clean, keeping the productions running, keeping the light, literally keeping the lights on and not complaining about it at all. And then seeing Everybody out until 2 in the morning and then seeing them at Starbucks at 5 in the morning to start the day all over again.

There is so much that goes on behind the scenes that doesn't, I don't think, get appreciated as often as it should. Right. There should be an Icon Awards for the production staff. Overall, this was a great conference. I got a ton out of it.

Maybe next year I'd like to see a little bit of live podcasting there. I don't know. I know a guy.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:23:50

Oh, that would be awesome.

Matt Stagliano: 01:23:52

Right? I think the, the overall vibe for me was better this year. Despite anything that I could probably nitpick and complain about.

I'd give the whole thing, you know, high score. I can only imagine that next year after having been at the Rio now for one year, what next year is going to look like.

I think there are some big things on the horizon. I like it. You know, imaging is so big. Shutterfest is, you know, a little bit smaller, but man, oh man, oh man, I think this could really be a.

A great event for the entire industry. So, like, it hasn't been for, you know, 20 years. But I'm saying going forward, now that I'm there, now that I'm there, it could be better that.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:24:32

Yeah, right.

Matt Stagliano: 01:24:32

I mean, I'm glad you recognize that, how important I am. All right. On that note, I'm so glad that we got to spend so much time there and play mini golf and.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:24:43

Yeah, we just got to. Yeah, that Was.

Matt Stagliano: 01:24:46

It was.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:24:46

I got to yap with so many great people and I loved it. And it was. That was something too, besides the mini golf. Excellent. You know, just so great.

Which turns out I'm terrible regardless of how much I've had to drink. It was so fun. And it was just. So we were playing, like, that's literally what we were doing.

We were playing because that was the energy and everyone's welcome. Emma comes in. Y'all haven't even met her before. She's just hanging out with us instantly.

Also, she did happen to bring a bag of 100 extra masquerade masks to a masquerade, because she just had it. And I mentioned to her right before the conference, and so she just brought it and then she was just putting them on everyone, which was amazing.

But I loved.

I love that the parties have themes and I love that, you know, we just have that stuff because, like, we want to be in this industry if we didn't like all that. And the gear. Yeah, you get to try out gear. You get to do. It's. It's all these different things.

But I agree with you, it's going forward, it's like just getting clear on that heartbeat of, like, why? And especially why My closing statement especially. Yeah, the conference world has changed, hasn't it, in the last few years. Oh, guess what?

The photography world has changed a lot.

Matt Stagliano: 01:25:50

A lot.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:25:50

Because of robots, because of phones, because of all kinds of things that are just changing faster than we can even keep up with. And I think the more we lean into the human aspect of this, the more we remember how valuable it is.

And the aspects of this industry that, guess what? AI will never be able to do. And all those things have their own purposes. Whatever. I'm not saying they're good or bad, right?

Just like I don't say Photoshop's good or bad. I just have gotten clear on why I use it now. So let's all challenge ourselves to think, why are we using these things? Why are we doing this?

Why are we going to this conference? Why? Because if we don't, we're going to sell ourselves short.

Matt Stagliano: 01:26:30

WPPY versus wppai. Huh? Huh? Who's the marketing genius over here? I know. Olivia is all sounds like, why go.

I can hear the groans from everybody listening to this right now. And it's so well deserved. So well deserved.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:26:48

Yeah, no, that was rough. Now I'm just going to think about that all the time, every time, to come to this podcast and see about that.

Matt Stagliano: 01:26:53

You're welcome. You're welcome. I now have my title.

Mitzi, you're going to come back and we're going to do kind of a catch up on everything, especially now that you have this Kansas City studio and you're doing so much with education.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:27:06

And I got, I just got a huge opportunity coming up soon that I'm.

Matt Stagliano: 01:27:10

Yep.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:27:10

I'm not sure when this episode will come out, but it's coming up very soon and it's big and I'm so excited about it, so.

Matt Stagliano: 01:27:18

Well, I can't wait to hear about it. I can't. Once you're not under NDA anymore, I would love to hear about it.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:27:24

Yes.

Matt Stagliano: 01:27:24

Thank you so much. I will talk to you soon. Okay.

Mitzi Starkweather: 01:27:27

All right. All right. Thank you. Bye.